As the troll''s comments have now disappeared (good riddance) the site admin have apparently opted to censor. Once more, this is their legitimate prerogative. (So would be censoring my excessive verbiage, or anyone else''s comments here...)

A note to the admin: In case the d comment were an indictable offense (in this case I don''t think so) you probably should hold on to the access record. Else you might be guilty of an ironic side-effect of censoring criminal comment tampering with, or destroying court evidence.

Generally speaking it is possible, given the right data, to trace anonymous comments like this to their source, yet another reason why censorship is not always the best option by permitting open expression we allow those who DO engage in criminal types of behavior to incriminate themselves.

The recent visit by the troll self-identifying as "werwer4543", below, whether his vomitted sentiment is intended seriously (I doubt it) or not, provides a lovely example in hand for our discussion of hate speech.

First, a live admonition to a real audience to "kill all" members of any group of people is not only hate speech, it is incitement to murder. Under the right circumstances it is an indictable offense, and for good reason we can''t have homicidal maniacs in our midst.

The gratuitous confusion of "terrorists" and "muslims" implied by the text and title together is just plain ignorant, but provides another example of hate speech. Rude, demonstrably false, and thoroughly odious, but probably not illegal.

The administrators of this paper could simply the comment (or anyone else''s for that matter) and would be within their rights it is their site, and they have every right to control its content, or not, as they may choose.

But, if this statement were shown to be a cle

(Dang, can''t seem to keep my comments under the limit. Sorry All!)

... In point of fact, the following statement has been on the MSA hadith/sunnah pages all along:

"Sponsored by the MSU.
The University of Southern California does not screen or control the content on this website and thus does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such content. All content on this website is provided by and is the sole responsibility of the student organization from which such content originated, and such content does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the University administration or the Board of Trustees."

The second sentence of the disclaimer would appear to have been put to the lie by recent events!

Carol, I agree that even a free society places bounds on speech. Pornography, slander, incitement, etc are examples. But there is no law here against archiving important historical/religious texts containing such incitements, as in this case. Such laws would be a bad idea.

Joel is right that this is a matter of publication on a website controlled by USC and the university is within its rights either way it goes. It is not strictly a matter of free speech.

I have argued that it is antithetical to the nature of the academy to censor archived information of this nature (the online hadith collection is an archive it is designed to be accessed by a search engine, not for online browsing. To find this stuff you have to search specifically for it. It is the only broadly accessible source for this material outside mosques and Islamic schools in the West.)

Joel suggests there should be a disclaimer on the site. As a point of fact, the following statement has been on the MSA hadith/sunnah

...make good points. Although technically USC (being a private institution) has every right to control what appears on its web site (i.e. this is not a 1st Amendment issue), it would probably be better to leave the distasteful content in place with a disclaimer that it does not reflect the opinion of the university or it''s web master.

I understand where you are coming from, and you make a lot of sense. I can see that people need to know more about the threat of Islam. It is also true that we cannot control how people apply what they read online. I still believe there should be come controls put on the smut available online, though, the porn, kiddie porn,homosexuality. Free speech in one thing, but perversion is quite another, and I don''t believe it belongs online or in public libraries. As for Hitler''s book, I can see the need for people to be able to understand his brand of evil. Sadly,there will always be those who think he was right and will put these resources to the wrong use. God bless

The MSA is a radical islamist organization directly connected to the Muslim Brotherhood, and so a potentially dangerous presence on campuses in the U.S. But they have done us a service by being honest enough to openly advertise what Islamic studies courses, our mainstream media and politicians are too sensitive to breach: the imperialistic, supremacist, bigoted, antisemetic core to radical Islam, and the degree to which these elements are accepted by many (not all!) muslims IN OUR MIDST as fundamental aspects of their faith.

Now, if you really want to go around handing out blindfolds, I guess that''s you''re business, but I say it''s time the West stared this stuff in the face and began responding intelligently instead of continually sticking our heads in the sand.

Sorry for consuming all this bandwidth but this needs to be said.

The university where I teach, in fact, has 10 (copies of Mein Kampf), all available for public loan. Why? Why don''t we just burn them and erase this evil screed from history? For the same reason we don''t simply buldoze all the old Nazi extermination camps: It is more important that we remember the past and remain aware of potential future danger than it is to protect our sensitive feelings from being exposed to these awful realities.

We openly teach about the evils of the Nazi regime in History classes. But Islamic Studies courses across the West are hyper-sensitive to anything that might suggest that some mainstream interpretations of Islam pose real danger to Jews and other non-muslims. Newspapers and government agencies bend over backwards to avoid saying associating Islam with violence. If there is any mention of a connection it is that the terrorists have "hijacked", or "misunderstood" the religion.

The MSA is a radical islamist organization directly connected to the Muslim Broth

Ignoring this reality would be unwise.

As I pointed out, the USC site is the ONLY widely accessible site where this historical information can be found by non-muslims. But muslims needn''t rely on this site: the words of Mohammed are taught through mosques and Islamic Schools everywhere.

If we succeed in systematically preventing all access to this information in non-Arabic languages throughout the West, what have we accomplished? This will not prevent it from being proclaimed in mosques and madrassas in our midst, or keep young muslims around the world from being inculcated with these teachings.

However, we WILL have effectively prevented billions of Western non-muslims (and tens of millions of Jews) from learning of, and understanding, the nature of the threat posed by them.

I repeat, from my earlier post: "What you don''t know CAN hurt you!"

Every university library at which I have checked has a copy of Mein Kampf on the shelf. The university where I teach, in fact,

Hi, M&C. I understand your concerns about Free Speech. In a sense this is irrelevant to the issue, and I regret using that phrase.

(There some danger in your arguments they are precisely those used by oppressive regimes to suppress dissent. Read about how the Nazis under Hitler used the hate speech laws of the Weimar Replublic to silence critics while they did real violence to the Jews. But in a sense this is a diversion. Read Ezra Levant'' blog on the subject: ezralevant.com . But I digress...)

You are right in a sense: if these were original compositions appearing on the USC web page they would qualify as incitement to violence/murder, a crime that must be proscribed by law in a free society.

However the writings in question are not contemporary speech they are classical Islamic holy texts recording sayings of Mohammed. There are currently 1.6 billion people in the world who regard his sayings as effectively direct statements from God. Ignoring this reality would be unwi

go back to Iran or wherever they came from. The dark ages are done and over with.

is that the God of this worlds system is "a liar", and all of "his followers" are of the same character as their "spiritual-father", the devil.

Israel and the Jewish people are in the "center of the earthquake" that GOD in heaven is directing. GOD, is absolutely sovereign in His universe! GOD Who IS Creator, controls everything down to the most "minute, smallest detail" according to His perfect will! Israel will have the greatest, most cataclysmic struggle of her existence, but Israel will prevail and 1/3 of the Jewish people will serve Yeshua the Messiah from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Yeshua''s Bride (the true church, not R.C.) will also serve Her Redeemer and Lord, Yeshua!

Of Yeshua it is said: "In Him dwelleth ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily" (Colossians 2: 9)! Every person, Arab, Jew, and every variety of Gentile on the earth, will bow down to Him at His coronation on earth and utter with their mouths: "THOU ART LORD", to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2: 9, 10, 11)! Everyo

..because he has to use a false platform (someone else), to launch his contorted, feeble "nonsensical" expressions. This is an impossible task for a sane individual. But this "quack" is not sane, he is "impaired" therefore, he cannot be reasoned with. There is nothing that can be done to disarm such a mindless character. He must be attempting to dissuade others away from what these Arab terrorist have been carrying out in (America, and) the world over the past decade, or more.

Yes, there was the Oklahoma City Federal Building involving McVeigh (who was deluded and was certainly not a conservative American), who did drive the rental truck filled with explosives. But, a seismograph of the Murray Building incident showed not just one, but two explosions were closely carried out together. The second explosion was along the second row of support columns inside the building, where one column was blown completely out. This was what caused the inside to collapse, not McVeigh''s feeble truck detonation!
<

The church fires were NOT done by Jews, but by a group of teen boys whose hatred of religion motivated them. We all have enough sense to read papers, etc. You can quote all the web pages you want, and it doesn''t make you anymore an hones person than sitting in a garage makes you a car. Although, come to think of it, you ARE a part of a car
THE DIPSTICK

I never did believe Tim McVeigh was alone in this. I don''t know how much of a part he played, but he must have had some part, because he didin''t ''squeal'' on anyone involved. It was all a ploy to do away with militias by our government, who I also believe KNEW it was coming down and when it was happening. Rino worked hand in hand with these terorists just as we trained BinLadden. Several people in the building (some FBI) were seen taking things out that they would not have wanted destroyed, such as family pictures, etc. They KNEW this was going to happen, & that inocent people and children would loose their lives, & they didn''t care. Janet Rino is dirty for this as well, and also in Wacko as well as Ruby Ridge. All under the corrupt Clintonesta administration as well. Geo. Washington would start a new revolt!!! God bless

Joseph and he is right about his comments along with my friend Jim B.

My last posting was @ 1:30 A.M., 9/9/2008.

Including this writing (only), all others are from some "warped" wretch who has lost their own individual-identity and originality,

And "YES", the church burners were extremist (Arab) muslum terrorist. The same were behind the explosion(s) of the Murray Federal Building in Oklahoma City some years back. Timothy McVeigh was not the originator of this horrible crime. W.J. Clinton ignored the Israeli Intelligence statements about "middle-east" Arab terrorist, and blammed the American "right-wing" for the crime!

The Arabs (5 in all) raced to the airport in a car, and escaped the scene! The FBI stuck their heads in the ground, again on this one!

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=005A46C8-ECFD-4FDD-A68E-9E7E66436623
brigitte gabriel interview

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=35296
Religious ‘Defamation’ on Agenda at UN Rights Session

NOW is when you are lying. You are not Joseph, at least not the Joseph we know here. You''re not fooling anybody with this garbage, so you might as well crawl back into the sewer you came from. You think you are slick, but you''re SNOT.

It`s seems that USA is full of worse blood-thirsty murderers, just waiting for OB(S)AMA to become the 1-st Muslim oriented President, this as a fact seems clearly of the murder-wishes Arabs & Muslims desires to commit. Their inhumanly desire of murder-commitment on Jews is increasing, while the lack of Western clear Human opposition gives the strength to the Muslims Wild Beast behavior...

My own niece was approached by muslims when she was in rehab. They let muslim "missionaries" (for want of a better word) talk to these young impressionable kids. She asked me to buy her a koran. I about hit the floor.....needless to say I said NO!!! I told her I would buy her a Bible, but not a koran. That pretty much ended her muslim fantasy. Of course, had my sister done a better job raising her it might not ever have been a problem, but it still remains an issue that these kids are being led astray. Muslims recruit prisoners for there terrorist plots as well. We need to hand them their turbans & show them the border.
Now, I''ve gone and gotten carried away.........see what you made me do, Magend??? just kidding, but the mis-use of our free speech just galls me to no end. God bless

This "free speech" is also poluting the minds of our young ones. Not only the porn, pedophilia, and all that filth, but in the case of this muslim hate speech, it is leading our already rebellious youth down a very dangerous path. Way too many kids today are being raised in homes where the only time they hear God''s name is in swearing. Parents are allowing the TV to raise the kids for them while they are out partying, drinking, getting stoned. (many need to BE stoned,& I don''t mean drugs) The muslims are agressively swaying our young people who get into trouble and wind up in jail or a drug treatment facility, & the mindless hours kids spend on the computer getting into sites they have no right to be. The free speech amendments were never, I repeat NEVER meant to poison our children, and they are doing just that.

May be we should allow "Al-Queida" to set up their sites around the country so that folks can see for themselves how "bad they are".

May be we should allow all forms of neo-nazi propaganda. Let the KKK set up classes in our public schools (why not right - the FEMINIST do it).
HOW ABSOLUTELY CONVOLUTED AND NAIVE CAN PEOPLE TRULY BE???

I agree with you to the extent that the media can be used to spread the truth about this G-d-less religion. But to think that allowing "Hate-sites" to promote their garbage under the guise of "Freedom of Speech Rights" is gonig to do more good than harm - is to be naive and completely out of touch with reality!!!

What do you all think would happen if our founding fathers were to return this very day and see the absolute horrid mess "we" have made of our country under the guise of "FREEDOM OF SPEECH"!!!! Speaking of "Appeasment".... "Freedom of Speech" is what perverts are using to promote "PORNOGRAPHY". "Freedom of Speech" is what pedophiles are using to promote "pedophelia". Homosexuals etc. are all falling back on their 1st and 5th ammendment rights to justify their immorality....
Not only, by allowing this so-called free speech, are you informing the good people about the evils of Islam. But you are also allowing (more promoting) the support and spread of "ANTI-SEMITISM" as, unfortunately, so many in our world fail to be able to discerne between right and wrong.... I agree with you to the extent that the media can be used to spread the truth about this G-d-less religion. But to think that allowing "Hate-sites" to promote their garbage under the guise of "Freedom of Speech Rights" is gonig to do more good tha

The F.B.I. should be on-alert in California (and elsewhere in America) for any form of "harassments of Hate" against Jewish citizens and Jewish visitors to our country. At a time when Arabs seem to have a free hand to burn churches and carryout other vicious forms of "INTOLERANCE" against other people who vehemently reject the "STUPID DOCTRINES" of Islam, it is the fundamental responsibility of American law enforcement to be on alert against such "radical, intolerant terrorists" who challenge our system of laws!

America''s colleges and Universities are a "hot-bed" of hate and intolerence against Semitic people!! Let America not become a haven for radical, Islamic Nazis to carry "Hate-Crimes" in the 21st century, as it happened 70 years ago!!!

F.B.I., GET TO WORK, and stop such "threats & actions of hate" before they occur in America!!

Every Freedom we enjoy has limits. For example, it is illegal to slander or libel another person, one cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, one group of people CANNOT incite the murder of another group.

As an Orthodox Jew, I tend to agree with Archimedes2 on this issue. While such sppech IS hate speech, it will educate like no other explanation can.

Our collective jobs should be to magnify such incidents so they become common knowledge. Further, they should be used to make seem hypocritical the curtailment of religious free speech on OTHER college campuses against Jews and Christians.

I would write in protest to California legislatures comparing university abuses and curtailments on Jewish and Christian speech that orginially tolerated this Muslim hate speech. The university cannot claim ignorance in advance when they seem to pre-empt Jewish and Christian free speech all the time.

(continued)

As Robert Spencer of jihadwatch.com likes to say, censorship is not a remedy for bad speech the right response is more and better speech.

In an age where Islamist movements are successfully pressuring Western governments and the UN to suppress all critical examination of Islam (if you aren''t aware of this ... get informed!) and its connection to contemporary jihadism, it is fundamentally important that we stand for freedom of speech, and academic liberty even when it means allowing odious and hateful views to be expressed.

Indeed, there is no freedom of speech if offensive speech is not permitted. What''s the point of protecting only freedom of inoffensive speech?

An unusual position for me, I am with the MSA on this one. Get the unadulterated texts back online where the world can see them and stop fooling around with information needed for the protection of innocent lives and for the defense of the West against this seditious ideology!

The university has every right even responsibility to set parameters for what appears on websites it owns.

But having said that I also say leave the antisemetic vitriol there it serves a better purpose by being on display than by hiding it.

The USC site is the only complete, widely available English-language source of Islamic texts in the world. It provides a great service by making it clear to westerners, who are largely ignorant of orthodox Islamic teaching.

What we don''t know CAN hurt us. I believe it is better to know what is being taught in mosques and Islamic schools than to simply suppress all information about it because it is unpleasant.

We are not being well-served by our media and politicians, who are afraid to connect the dots between Islamic texts and the violence and hatred they are inspiring around the world. That this critical information is being suppressed by an institution of higher learning is unconscionable.

As Robert Spencer of jihadwatch.

These morons should be kicked out of school and sent back at their expense to the caves where they came from. Islam is a political cult,
not a religion, and that is what is should be called.

Let''s remove these and other radical muslims from this NATION.....how about free one way tickets to Mars? That should do the trick. We could send their silly rock in Mecca right along with them, and they could teach the Martians to run around the blasted thing while chanting to allah and Mo-HAMM-ed..........

the biggest mistake the United States has made in this "war on terror" is appeasment.

When you fight a war to appease, your surrendering without knowing it.

THE QURAN IS A LIE!!!!

The "WEST" greatest mistake yet is that we have declared "WAR ON TERROR", when we should be declaring "WAR" on "The NATION OF ISLAM"...
The University should not only be removing the text, but should be removing every student in this "Terrorist Organization"....

the Australian Gov.. They told muslims there to either accept the way Ausies live or get out, that they were not going to change to suit Islam. GOOD FOR THEM!!! We could learn from that government.

You''re about as Jewish as Osama Bin Ladden. YOUR knee will bow to the JEWISH Messiah one day, like it or lump it. You have been weighed & found wanting.

down Jews in favor of arabs, I don''t think so, nice try. Have a good day, Shalom

A Muslim would be allowed to lie barefaced if it forwarded the goal to destroy all "unbelievers". The West and Israel must grasp the fact that you cannot ever ever ever give any ground to a liar. Especially one who is convinced that pigs and monkeys are the other side of the negotiating table and should by wiped off the face of the Earth as unclean animals. God bless Israel!

If it where a site calling to kill all muslims that site would have been charged with hate crimes. And I love how they say it was misinterpritted, what, how can you missinterprit kill all the jews withe the help of wticks and stones. And they claim to be inteligent. More people need to open there eyes to this evil. God Bless and Peace always in Yeshua. Matthew

Obama finally admits he is a muslim. Why does Obama lie about everything?

Obama on ABC this Sunday. "Let''s not play games," he said. "What I was suggesting you''re absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you''re absolutely right that that has not come."

http://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2008/09/05/News/ d.Site.Causes.Stir.For.Muslim.Organization-3417321.shtml

hadiths removed http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/hadeeth/muslim/041.html

6981 through 6985

They don''t believe in Isaac. I doubt they would read our bible and believe in Jesus.

''palestine'' husband - Ahhlass! Yasuo'' hu AKKBAR! Yasuo'' al RAB! Yasuo'' al Maseeh!- translation for my non Arabic speaking friends: Y''shua is the GREATEST! Y''shua is LORD! Y''shua is the Messiah!

I too will pray for your immortal soul!

God help you...I will pray for your soul...

they need to put aside their readings and look at and understand the Bible there they will read about G-d the Father and His anointed jesus <yeshua> the messiah, they will learn about the G-d of israel =========shalom=======augustine e johnson-usa

Throughout history Muslims have proven to be the least productive people to have ever blighted humanity. Mohammad built his criminal empire by allowing his cult members to profit directly from the spoils of war, slavery and taxing the vanquished. This has been the model adopted by his followers to this day. Be it the Palestinian rot in the middle east or the ghettoised hordes in Europe living off welfare who constantly demand that they deserve respect while they plot to destroy the system that sustains them. Why do our politicians put up with this nonsense? Because we let them and the Muslims have the oil and we don''t. For civilization to survive this onslaught we need to develop viable alternate energy sources sooner rather than later. This would allow us to treat Islam with the contempt and irrelevance this cancer deserves.

It''s a sad day when people here in America can''t incite murder and mayhem. who do we think we are? if different cultures want to commit genocide, is it really moral to stop them? It doesn''t seem very "inclusive".

I kidding,ok?

besides, muslims will never get very far in america, for we have a secretanti-muslim weapon: THE BACON CHEESEBURGER. if you think 300 million rednecks are going to give that up, you need another mushroom.

p.s. I wrote you back, Jim.

Why don''t they (the muslims) replace the Jews with California Liberals. I''m sure they will have more fun.

Why don''t they (the muslims) replace the Jews with California Liberals. I''m sure they will have more fun.

Let them keep it on the website and let the world see what Islam is.

Anyone who see''s Islam as a "religion" is a fool.

If Muslims cannot, or will not abide by the laws of our country, they must be sent back to their countries of origin.

Thank goodness someone stood up to them..here in Toronto, there are groups that call the Israelis guilty of Apartheid and they are promoted on our campuses...only lately we have made hamas and hezbollah illegal but they still march in the downtown streets and gather money in our cities and on campuses...We are impotent in Canada to stand up to these barbarians and send them back to the 6th century in some third world country which is where they belong.
Who monitors the curriculum in all the islamist schools...the texts that are printed by the Wahabbists..