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Commentary
Monday, September 24, 2007
Messianic Jews and the Law of Return
Messianic legal analysis
The nation of Israel has the right to define itself as a Jewish nation and the definition given, as of today, is that a Messianic Jew is not considered Jewish for the purposes of the "Law of Return."


By Mike Decker

The Messianic Jewish community claims that it is another stream within Judaism that is resurrecting after 2,000 years of silence. The Messianic Jewish community explains its legitimacy by historical and theological claims. Theologically, Messianic Jews claim that Yeshua is really the promised Messiah according to the Messianic prophecies revealed in the Jewish scriptures, and historically they claim that all the first followers of Yeshua were devout Jews. With the establishment of the Jewish nation, many Jewish people have been convinced that Yeshua is truly the Messiah according to the Jewish scriptures and have consequently begun to believe in Yeshua, while insisting on keeping their Jewish identity.

Today, the Messianic Jewish community consists of approximately 15,000 members within the nation of Israel and approximately 300,000 members from around the world. This is a religious community, which believes both in the Tanach and in the New Testament, and that Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel, according to the many prophecies revealed in the Tanach. The Messianic Jewish community is recognized as having a very Zionistic and pro-Israel approach, among many other reasons, because they see the reestablishment of the nation of Israel as the fulfilment of scriptural prophecy. Therefore, the members of the Messianic Jewish community are loyal citizens of Israel that are prompt to serve in the army and to fulfil all their legal obligations.

Notwithstanding the abovementioned, the personal definition of the Messianic Jewish community is not yet accepted by many within the Jewish nation and is thoroughly rejected by the different orthodox streams within Judaism. This fact is revealed as it relates to the Law of Return. The "Law of Return" is a secular law, which is the central, legal expression of the nation of Israel as being a nation for all the Jewish people. This law was made in the Knesset on the 5th of July 1950 and it grants every Jew, being secular or religious, the right to immigrate into Israel and to receive an Oleh Certificate, which according to the Law of Citizenship, is an immediate prerequisite before receiving an Israeli citizenship.

In the year 1970 and as a result of two very famous constitutional court decisions, e.g. Roffeisen v. the Minister of Interior and Binymin Shalit v. the Minister of Interior, an amendment was made to the "Law of Return" wherein a definition for a Jew was made which indicates that a Jew is a person born of a Jewish mother, and is not a part of a different religion. Furthermore, after an additional amendment which grants the right of return also to family members of Jews, this right was conditioned to the ones who did not wilfully change their religion. Now, and subsequent to the abovementioned amendment of the "Law of Return", I wish to review all the court decisions which have determined that a Jew who believes in Yeshua is a part of a different religion, according to the definition given to a Jew in the "Law of Return"; and as a person who wilfully changed his religion according to the section which grants family members of Jews to immigrate into Israel.

The first court decision which I will briefly review is in regards to Hatshins v. the Minister of Interior. This court decision deals with a family, belonging to the Christian religion, who decided to convert to Judaism in order to immigrate into Israel, by virtue of the "Law of Return", and to establish a congregation to teach Jews that it is possible to both believe in Yeshua and to remain Jewish. Immediately, when their plot was discovered, their conversion was cancelled, along with their right to immigrate into Israel. Justice Berenzon wrote words in his decision that echo in all the similar court decisions which were made after this particular one, and they are: “Concerning Yeshuim who are considered and recognized as Jews, we have never yet heard of. This is absolutely unacceptable…ask any Jew on the street if this phenomena is probable and their definite answer will be: ‘no’.”

Two years after this an additional case had transpired in Dorflinger v. the Minister of Interior. This case was in connection with a Jewess named Ester Dorflinger. Her request to immigrate into Israel and to receive an Israeli citizenship as a Jew was rejected, since the Ministery of Interior decided that she is part of a different religion. Ms. Dorflinger fervently insisted that there is no contradiction between the fact that she is Jewish and the fact that she believes that Yeshua is the Messiah. However, to the regret of the members of the Messianic Jewish community, she did not succeed in convincing the judges. In the wording of Justice Victon: “She has raised many extended and tortuous claims as to the possible link of a Jew believing in Yeshu(a) as the Messiah, as if we are living today in the beginning of the first century, and as if since then nothing has transpired as it relates to different religious structures that have been established and that have disconnected themselves from Judaism, and for all those who choose to join those different paths.”

After very solid and broad precedents had already been determined, as it is related to Jews who believe in Yeshua, an additional court decision was made. In Beresford v. the Minister of Interior, a Messianic Jewish family attempted to immigrate into Israel by virtue of the "Law of Return" and was denied of this right. In spite of the fact that this issue had already been settled and very negative precedents had already been determined, this family decided to appeal before the Israeli Supreme Court of Justice against the governmental decision that had been made concerning their steps toward immigration. In a court decision that is spread over tens of pages given by Justice Elon (an obvious Religious Judge) it was unquestionably determined that any Jew who believes in Yeshua in any shape or form and/or any Messianic Jew is part of a different religion and has decided to wilfully change his/her own religion.

In a very short period after this, an additional court decision was made in Kendel v. the Minister of Interior wherein the Beresford family, along with several other families who belong to the Messianic Jewish community, appealed before the Israeli Supreme Court of Justice, claiming that they are now inactive in Messianic Jewish activity and that a separation needs to be made between their inner beliefs and their external activities. Justice Netanyahu rejected their claims. As it relates to the other families, Justice Netanyahu also rejected their appeal for different reasons that are needless to review at this point. The last and final court decision was made in 1995 in David Yochanan v. the Minister of Interior. In a very short paragraph written by Justice Aharon Barak, David Yochann, who did not even have any documentation to prove that he was Jewish, was denied any right to immigrate into Israel as he claimed to be a Messianic Jew.

As we can now examine, all the abovementioned decisions created a very negative precedent for the Messianic Jewish community. These are being reviewed in almost every constitutional discussion in Israel, wherein the important question is raised regarding, "Who is a Jew?" Consequently, there are several suggested drafts for basic laws that indicate that the "Law of Return" does not apply to Messianic Jews, such as in the treaty between Professor Ruth Gabizon and Rabi Ya'akov Madan, and which can be found in www.gavison-medan.org.il.

The legal situation that has been created, as it is related to Messianic Jews, is: i.e. that a Messianic Jew, whose mother is Jewish, is considered a Jew who wilfully changed his/her religion, is therefore part of a different religion and is not entitled to immigrate. However, a Messianic Jew whose father, grandfather, or spouse is Jewish, according to the definition in the "Law of Return", is entitled to immigrate into Israel. Such a Messianic Jew immigrates into Israel because he is a family member of a Jew and therefore such a Messianic Jew has never changed his religion and the fact that he is part of a different religion, as defined by the abovementioned court decisions, is altogether irrelevant.

Many obstacles have arisen for the Messianic Jewish community regarding the aforesaid decisions, the major one being a wrong implementation of the precedent that was made. The registration clerks at the Ministry of Interior are not required to be educated about all of these legal matters. Therefore, as being "an average Jew on the street", according to their understanding every person who is a part of the Messianic Jewish community is not entitled to immigrate into Israel by virtue of the "Law of Return". This understanding is felt and interpreted as a decision being made in an exclusive manner. This particular obstacle is intensified and deployed when one considers that the information regarding the different members of the Messianic Jewish community is, for the most part, being communicated to the registration clerks by activists of extreme fundamental religious groups who purpose to prevent Jews from believing in ways different according to theirby law, from immigrating into Israel.

In other cases after some Messianic Jews have already immigrated into Israel, the Ministry of Interior can refuse to renew their passports, refuse to register their newly born children, and in extreme cases, revoke their citizenship. In essence, the above-mentioned situation reveals an illegal alliance between a governmental office that is obligated to operate in a non-discriminative, legal and equal manner and between fundamental religious groups, their core values being to advance their main objectives of preventing Jews from believing in ways different from theirs.

An appeal that attacks the abovementioned wrong implementation of the precedents that were made in the aforesaid court decisions is Sean Stakbak and others v. the Minister of Interior. This appeal, which was submitted before the Israeli Supreme Court of Justice in February 2005, deals with a group of petitioners who belong to the Messianic Jewish community, are not considered Jewish according to the definition in the "Law of Return", but who are requesting to immigrate into Israel only as family members of Jews. A decision to this appeal has not yet been given.

It must be emphasized, however, that the Messianic Jews who are Israeli citizens have the potential to greatly influence the nation of Israel as a group that is expanding and as of today consists of approximately 15,000 members. All the abovementioned appeals were made by foreigners who have attempted to immigrate into Israel and were refused by the Ministry of Interior. The nation of Israel has the right to define itself as a Jewish nation and the definition given, as of today, is that a Messianic Jew is not considered Jewish for the purposes of the "Law of Return". However, most of the court decisions, which have dealt with discrimination against the Messianic Jews who are citizens of the nation of Israel, were in favour of the members of the Messianic Jewish community who have been harassed simply because of their beliefs. These acts of harassment stand in opposition to the laws of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. In this Jewish and democratic state, the character of the nation has been formed by its activist citizens.

It seems to me that one of the main problems here is that the Messianic Jews in Israel have not been active enough in the Israeli society. Perhaps they do not realize that their voice could have a strong influence on the different decisions made by the Israeli leaders and even on the nation of Israel as a whole. It seems that they also may be greatly intimidated by the real threat of ostracism and persecution by those who have proven to be vehemently against their beliefs. It is also likely that the Messianic Jewish community simply does not know its legal rights as citizens of Israel.

The government of Israel certainly has the right to define itself. Yet the citizens of the nation also must have the opportunity and right to have a part in forming this aforesaid definition as well.

* This article first appeared in Kivun magazine.

Mike Decker has a B.A. in law and is currently working at the law offices of Yehuda Raveh & Co. Mike also serves as senior legal activist at the Jerusalem Institute of Justice.

For further inquiries regarding the issues mentioned in this article, please do not hesitate to contact Mike Decker personally at decker@yraveh.co.il.

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[371] COMMENTS:
1 .  To: Od Ephriam Chai
Thank you for sharing your testimony from the Tanakh that the two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) are Israel and Judah.

http://www.disciplesofyeshuwa.com/revelation.html

 
Patrick Geaney   11/24/2009 2:47 PM
2 .  comment
Dear Mike I am researching Gods relationship with man for last 19 yr Jes Mwssianic jews are deceived....There is NO PROOF that Holly Spirit indwells ,influences orguides todays Christians In all those years I never encounted so called fruits of Holly Spirit as described in NT The manifestations we see in Christianand Messianic movement is The Spirit of Baal,Baalzebub True Spirit dos not come to validate fake preachers We are to keep Torah and wait for TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM AND ISRAEL TOPOUR OUT HIS SPIRIT It is true that Yeshua wos Messiah bat we are to wait for Eliah to come and prepare the way ...You can read Confessions of a ChristianBaal worshipper on his web hi is still deceived...... Greetings from Slovenia Nadia
 
nadia   4/28/2009 11:00 AM
3 .  to the world: keep your eyes on Israel
I tell everyone I see , if you want to know what God is doing just watch Israel. Our God of Abraham ,Iaasac and Jacob will intervene when all other Nations are no longer able to assist you because all nations are struggling to survive. God has a people that He has put You in our hearts any we pray for you everyday! OH LORD! GIVE BENJAMIN THE WISDOM TO GOVERN THE NATION THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO CARRY OUT YOUR DIVINE WORD: SHALOM TO YOU OH ISRAEL!! GOD WILL NEVER FORSAKE YOU, NO NEVER, EVER!!!
 
dorothy garris   2/20/2009 5:09 PM
4 .  to the world: keep your eyes on Israel
I tell everyone I see , if you want to know what God is doing just watch Israel. Our God of Abraham ,Iaasac and Jacob will intervene when all other Nations are no longer able to assist you because all nations are struggling to survive. God has a people that He has put You in our hearts any we pray for you everyday! OH LORD! GIVE BENJAMIN THE WISDOM TO GOVERN THE NATION THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO CARRY OUT YOUR DIVINE WORD: SHALOM TO YOU OH ISRAEL!! GOD WILL NEVER FORSAKE YOU, NO NEVER, EVER!!!
 
dorothy garris   2/20/2009 5:08 PM
5 .  Good news
I really support Messianic Jews for their faith they have in Lord Jesus Christ.....at the same time its a very good thing that they are keen to keep up their jewish tradition. Hope there are large number of Messianic Jews.
 
Geo George   5/20/2008 2:20 PM
6 .  What will it take part5
So, if Israel and Judah are YHWH''s witnesses ,who do you think our the two witnesses of Rev 11.

What will it take to show you that Yahushua is the Messiah.

Not Jesus ,not Alleh ,but Yahushua
A jew born as a man.
Yahu Shua = Yah our savior
Jesus = Zeus






 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:56 AM
7 .  What will it take part4
The Most High assigned nations their lands He determined where peoples should live. He assigned to each nation a god. But Jacob''s descendants He chose for His own inheritance. Deuteronomy 32:8-9
People of Israel, you are my witnesses. I chose you to be my servant. Isiah 43:10
 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:50 AM
8 .  What will it take part3
He gives His message to His people His instructions and laws to Israel. He has done this for no other nations. They do not know his laws.
Psalm 147:19-20
As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds His people now and forever.
Psalm 125:2
People of Israel, I have always loved you, so I continue to show you my constant love.
Jeremiah 31:3
 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:48 AM
9 .  What will it take part1
I, the God of Israel, will never abandon them. Isiah 41:17
Have you noticed how people are saying that I have rejected Israel and Judah, the two families that I chose?
Jeremiah 33:24
The Lord''s teaching comes from Jerusalem from Zion He speaks to His people. Micah 4:2

I am the Lord your God, the Holy God of Israel who saves you ... I will give up whole nations to save your life, because you are precious to me, because I love you and give you honor. Do not be afraid. I am with you.
Isiah 43:3-5





 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:44 AM
10 .  What will it take part1
To know that Yahushua is Messiah ?
YHWH keeps every promise Proverbs 30:5-6
We Jews know whom we worship, because it is from the Jews that salvation comes. John 4:22
God has not rejected His people whom He chose from the beginning.
Romans 11:1-2
I, the YHWH Elohim , have not abandoned Israel and Judah even though they have sinned against me, the Holy One of Israel. Jeremiah 51:5
How can I give you up Israel? How can I abandon you? ... my heart will not let me do it! My love for you is too strong.
Hosea 11:8




 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:42 AM
11 .  What will it take part1
To know that Yahushua is Messiah ?
YHWH keeps every promise Proverbs 30:5-6
We Jews know whom we worship, because it is from the Jews that salvation comes. John 4:22
God has not rejected His people whom He chose from the beginning.
Romans 11:1-2
I, the YHWH Elohim , have not abandoned Israel and Judah even though they have sinned against me, the Holy One of Israel. Jeremiah 51:5
How can I give you up Israel? How can I abandon you? ... my heart will not let me do it! My love for you is too strong.
Hosea 11:8




 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:42 AM
12 .  What will it take part1
To know that Yahushua is Messiah ?
YHWH keeps every promise Proverbs 30:5-6
We Jews know whom we worship, because it is from the Jews that salvation comes. John 4:22
God has not rejected His people whom He chose from the beginning.
Romans 11:1-2
I, the YHWH Elohim , have not abandoned Israel and Judah even though they have sinned against me, the Holy One of Israel. Jeremiah 51:5
How can I give you up Israel? How can I abandon you? ... my heart will not let me do it! My love for you is too strong.
Hosea 11:8




 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:42 AM
13 .  What will it take part1
To know that Yahushua is Messiah ?
YHWH keeps every promise Proverbs 30:5-6
We Jews know whom we worship, because it is from the Jews that salvation comes. John 4:22
God has not rejected His people whom He chose from the beginning.
Romans 11:1-2
I, the YHWH Elohim , have not abandoned Israel and Judah even though they have sinned against me, the Holy One of Israel. Jeremiah 51:5
How can I give you up Israel? How can I abandon you? ... my heart will not let me do it! My love for you is too strong.
Hosea 11:8




 
Od Ephriam Chai   1/24/2008 6:42 AM
14 .  RE: Amen?
No, you can read those pagan writings and I will read and study God''s Holy Word, which is truth. Satan has been in the counterfeiting business ever since he rebelled and wanted to replace God. It is he that inspires these pagan writings you speak of. I have someting interesting you might want to read. Go to www.biblebelievers.com, and click on Science/Society. There you will find an online book you can read called "Dying Testimonies of Saved and Unsaved". It is an authenic account of several hundred death-bed utterances of both saint and sinner. The last moments of the saints are uplifting, yet the last moments of the unsaved are really scarey. If I was unsaved and came across this book, it would drive me to my knees and to the Saviour. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   12/21/2007 1:53 AM
15 .  Isaiah 48 talks about the Jews return.
Hey all

Isaiah has an interesting take of the return of the jews.
cut below link and put in bowser.

http://www.isaiahdecoded.com/Lessons/Isa-48/player.html

dewey
 
Dewey Olsen   12/17/2007 5:26 PM
16 .  Amen?
...as in "Amen-Ra" ??? Seriously, please study the ORIGINS of your religion and it''s traditions. Go to Google Video and search for "The Naked Truth" 1 hr 50 min film, or "Zeitgeist" 1 hr 56 min film. These films explain exactly why I (and many others) think your religion is backwards and all wrong. If nothing else, please read "The Epic of Gilgamesh" (these examples are just the tip of the iceburg) I mean you no harm and I offer only truth through knowledge.
 
dick   12/15/2007 1:48 PM
17 .  Amen and Amen Brother Dave.
One thing you left out brother. This "Dick" and many, many others like him will bow the knee profess that Jesus is who He says He is one day, but will be too late to repent and receive Him. Every idle word men speak, they will give an account of in the judgment. "Dick" should read the online book, "Dying Testimonies of the Saved and Unsaved" to learn just a bit of his lot if he leaves this world without Jesus. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   12/15/2007 9:17 AM
18 .  to:Marjie
Dear one, there are some that just can not be brought to Jesus, for their hearts are stone and they are ''stubborn, stiff-necked'' people just as the children of Israel in the wilderness were. They refuse the God of creation, insisting on placing their faith in gods of wood,stone,or metal that can not speak nor see nor hear. Be not troubled, little one, for the time of departure is near at hand and these will receive double for their sins,iniquities, and transgressions. Even the pagan Nebuchadnezzer had respect for the God of Israel. Pharoh did not and died in the Red Sea. One king was eaten by worms sitting on his throne. God offers the gift of Salvation but will force no-one to take it. God bless you and yours in the Name of Jesus, Amen!
 
Dave-BNBIH   12/13/2007 3:31 AM
19 .  To DICK''S Post
Thank you for your kind words. In case you are not aware ... the BIBLE is a book of History, perhaps YOU should read it!
 
Marjie - Michigan, USA   12/13/2007 12:37 AM
20 .  "plot"
...yes Marjie, and the Earth is flat! You are either: A. brainwashed, B. inbred, C. retarded or D. all of the above. PLEASE go take a history class - lol
 
dick   12/12/2007 11:23 PM
21 .  So the plot of Deception thickens (CONT)
And for those who surrender their lives to serve & GLORIFY, CHRIST our LORD, His SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit) indwells with in us FOREVER!
And we shall be forever with our LORD!
 
Marjie - Michigan, USA   12/12/2007 7:10 PM
22 .  So the plot of Deception thickens (CONT)
It makes me want to cry to see the deception. All Jesus wanted was for those to believe & trust in Him, and to know of his coming Kingdom. and that he was & is the SON OF THE MOST HIGH (GOD). He loved us so much, that he died ... because he refused to deny that he was the Son of God. What was the first religion ... "Christianity", God the Father seen to that by sending himself in the flesh!
Blessings to all!
Yours in Christ, Marjie
 
Marjie - Michigan, USA   12/12/2007 6:58 PM
23 .  So the plot of Deception thickens.
I can see those here who are followers of Christ Jesus, and then ... I can see those here who are followers of the enemy. I pray for the sake of your salvation that you go to the true word of God (Christian Bible). It saddens me to see those who have been lured in by satan, to use trickery & deception to convince followers of Christ to believe your lies. "Jesus Christ" suffered & died on that cross for YOU. He was beaten until his flesh peeled off his body, but yet he continued with the torture for YOU. He was paraded before thousands, bloodied & worn with deep gouges in his forehead, from that crown made of THORNS FOR YOU, and then he was pierced through his side to make sure he was dead FOR YOU! NOW, what are we doing for him?????
 
Marjie - Michigan, USA   12/12/2007 6:51 PM
24 .  Horus
The Egyptian God Horus (3000 b.c.e.) has the exact same "story" as "Jesus" - how do you explain this curious thing??? Is it maybe that Jews and Christians worship Egyptian Solar Gods?...do your homework people and quit fighting over things that aren''t real.
 
dick   12/11/2007 1:13 AM
25 .  2Jubal again
When it came to the subject of prophecy, the first words Jesus said was "Watch out that no one deceives you." He went on to talk about how they would "come in His name" and so forth. But His command to us was very easy and clear. "Go ye not therefore after them." They probably have a counter on their website for the number who visited their liar site. I don''t want to give them the one more ME.
 
Gerry   12/8/2007 5:44 AM
26 .  Resp.Jubal
That is interesting about Paul actually becoming one the the "Twelve" to sit upon the thrones as Jesus promised: that it should be because the disciples started acting before God gave them "power" of the Holy Spirit, and consequently chose "Matthias" by "lot." Indeed, Christ Himself, chose Paul.

In my heart, I have always felt that Paul was the Lord''s choice for that position.
 
Gerry   12/8/2007 5:34 AM
27 .  And you are still the Tricker, Patrick
Shame on you.
 
MrK   12/7/2007 11:01 PM
28 .  The words of Numbers 23:19 are "TRUE". 1 Tim 3:16 "A LIE".
The devil and false apostle Paul "Loveth and maketh A LIE" (Revelation 22:15) that "God was manifest in the flesh" ( 1 Timothy 3:16).

The TRUE and UNCHANGING words written in The Tanakh confirm that:

"The Mighty One is NOT A MAN..."
(Numbers 23:19. 1 Samuel 15:29. Hosea 11:9)

Yehvah Elohiym, Elohey Yisrael (Psalm 72:18) "IS NOT" and NEVER WAS and NEVER WILL BE "A MAN" (Hosea 11:9).

Unrepentant and unbelieving christians would rather wallow (like sows wallowing in the mud) in the spiritually lifeless and the plague afflicted christ-ianity believing the lies of 1 Tmothy 3:16 written by the devil and false apostle Paul - rather than REPENT and BELIEVE the blessed words written in Numbers 23:19. 1 Samuel 15:29 and Hosea 11:9.

http://www.quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.htm

 
Patrick Geaney   12/7/2007 3:58 PM
29 .  O Yes, Paul is one of the 12 Apostles.
How were each of the original 12 chosen? By Jesus Himself. To replace Judas, the other 11 took lots and chose Matthias, when Jesus told them to do nothing until the Holy Spirit was to come upon them. Paul was chosen by Jesus Himself, just like He chose the other apostles. Accept the invitation to visit the DOY cult website they love to advertise here, and you shall see how controversial they really are with the spirit of antichrist. They deny that Jesus is God in the flesh. So there you have the cult of DOY. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   12/6/2007 10:11 AM
30 .  Jewish DNA
98% of your citizens are white(goyim/gentile, whatever you want to call it) -How do you explain this as a "race" ?
 
dick   12/4/2007 6:53 PM
31 .  the blind One - the tricker
Are Patrick or Dayan the blind One Tricker on both his eyes? Tricker, Yes, you are for sure!! Go away from here!!!! We don''t need you or want to see you!!! Go away-run!!!
 
MrK   12/3/2007 10:00 PM
32 .  Dayan= Patrick= Tricker
Just look at Yom Kippur and the Messianic believers. Here is written like this:
Paul not one of "the 12 apostles of The Lamb" (Rev 21:14)
but he "BOASTED" that he was an apostle of "Satan". When anyone disagreed with him, such as "Hymenaeus and Alexander", he "handed such a one over to SATAN to be murdered" (1 Timothy 1:20. 1 Corinthians 5:5). This is the story of christianity for the last 2,000 years - serving Satan and slaughtering and hating those who disagree with Paul and his well paid henchmen.

Paul was telling the truth to his xian followers when he wrote to them "being CRAFTY I caught ye by TRICKERY" (2 Cor 12:16) . Why don''''t xians at the very least believe what Paul wrote in 2 Cor 12:16.? That''''s a good place to start.

http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html

Patricxk Geaney 11/29/2007 11:12 PM

This comment from Dayan here is equal to the comment number three from this one. So:
Are Patrick or Dayan the blind One Tricker on both his ey
 
MrK   12/3/2007 9:57 PM
33 .  being CRAFTY I caught ye by TRICKERY
from the continiuing shouting by Dayan, Maurice and Patrick and here they soon come again, just wait a little....they cannot say anything more interesting pointing three fingers at themselves...
 
MrK   12/3/2007 9:45 PM
34 .  Stop this lie, Dayan
You are the tricker. The DOYs are deceived liars.
 
MrK   12/1/2007 5:42 PM
35 .  Paul not one of "the 12 apostles of The Lamb" (Rev 21:14)
but he BOASTED that he was an apostle of "Satan". When anyone disagreed with him, such as Hymenaeus and Alexander, he "handed such a one over to SATAN to be murdered" (1 Timothy 1:20. 1 Corinthians 5:5). This is the story of christianity for the last 2,000 years - serving Satan.

Paul was telling the truth to his xian followers when he wrote to them "being CRAFTY I caught ye by TRICKERY" (2 Cor 12:16) . Why don''t xians wake up to the evil fruits of Paul''s xianity??. At least believe what Paul wrote in 2 Cor 12:16. That''s a good place to start.

http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html

 
Dayan   11/29/2007 11:00 PM
36 .  Israel is hurting itself by discriminatiion of a true Jew
Not all who calls themselves Jew are truely Israelis. Adonai Yeshua Hamashiach once said to the Samaritan lady, that God is a spirit and they who worships him must worship him spirit and truth. Also salvation is of Jewish origin. I and my father are one. Adonai Yeshua is declaring here that if you do not believe '''' I am who I am'' you have no salvation, because only I am has the power to grant eternal life and forgive sins, which the hypocritical pharisees, scribes, and orthodox Jewish leader of Yeshua days try to deny the deity of Yeshua.

He was persecuted and eventually crucified for the fact he came to bring salvation to mankind. Hence, all Jews who believes in Adonai Yeshua he authomatically grants them eternal life or salvation. This is what Yeshua means that Salvation is of the Jews. So those who discriminates against believers in Yeshua are in contrast declaring to all and sundary that they are not Jews but false Jews. They are the ones who should be ashamed because they are unfaithful to the
 
Sunny   11/20/2007 10:07 PM
37 .  Like everyone else on earth
We run headlong into this fact so many times. We are foolish to tail to remember it. Each of us, individualy, are the greatest enemy we have tob deal with. Israel can easily be defeated, by itself.
 
Gerry   11/16/2007 12:03 PM
38 .  Long hard article, Mr. Decker
I believe with all my heart, that Ezekiel 38 and 39, is not just to prove something to Israel''s outside world.

Who will not be terrified at the Almighty in that day?

So while your powerful orthodox Jewish government is trembling in its boots, your "Messianics"

"shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days" (Hosea 3:5 KJV.)

It is what God is looking at, that comes through here.

"But to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word." (Isa.66:2) All that reject Jesus are the very same arrogant stuff of that old time when He got crucified. They are out of the picture, despite how strong they appear. It isn''t their power that''s the holdback. It is the Almighty''s time, we wait on.
 
Gerry   11/16/2007 11:58 AM
39 .  Amen MrK
Dear Brother in Jesus, I see that you remain one of the only ones still battling satan''s minions in the DOY cult. If only folks would take up their advertisement to visit the site, they would see what utter nonsense it really it. Is a combo of the sacred names movement, word idolatry, hebrew roots movement, all rolled up into one really vile cult that their father satan should be proud of as his shining example. Oh, I forgot, this is not what this discussion is about. Yes, they do get the ones that are interested in text discussion, to get off the track onto their blasphemy. Still glad to see brother MrK still fighting for our Lord against these deceivers. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   11/15/2007 5:19 AM
40 .  messianic
A little absurd, like looking at binoculars backward!
 
everettbonsor   11/14/2007 9:52 PM
41 .  Ephesians 4
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

 
MrK   11/14/2007 9:02 AM
42 .  Romans 11
7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[d] 9And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."[e]

Ingrafted Branches
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!


 
MrK   11/13/2007 7:51 AM
43 .  And as I see no answer, I will also take this
as a sign that I myself have the same freedom not to answer any question from you, gentlemen, and of course also to answer or approach you if I like to do that. I just say this in case someone should wonder why what happens in different alternative developing stories to follow from here we are right now...
But may be 329 comments are sufficient under this specific article?
 
MrK   11/12/2007 10:40 PM
44 .  cont.
1:27 but God chose the foolish things of the world that he might put to shame those who are wise. God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong 1:28 and God chose the lowly things of the world, and the things that are despised, and the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are: 1:29 that no flesh should boast before God. 1:30 But of him, you are in Messiah Yeshua, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: 1:31 that, according as it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”*

 
MrK   11/12/2007 8:37 AM
45 .  1.Corintians
http://www.ebible.org/bible/hnv/1Cor.htm
1:19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
I will bring the discernment of the discerning to nothing.”*
1:20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the Torah scholar of this world? Hasn’t God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 1:21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the proclaiming to save those who believe. 1:22 For Jews ask for signs, Greeks seek after wisdom, 1:23 but we proclaim Messiah crucified a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks, 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Messiah is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1:26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, and not many noble 1:27 but God chose the foolish things
 
MrK   11/12/2007 8:35 AM
46 .  Dayan Maurice and PatrickSome ordinary dialogue will be fine
So just tell why you think it is a good idea to try to communicate with you in an ordinary way, and please start to tell what you answered last time someone questioned you and why you answered in the way you did.
Awaiting your answers, gentlemen.
 
MrK   11/11/2007 9:54 PM
47 .  Dayan, Maurice and Patrick
What did you answer last time someone tried to communicate with one of you, DOY gang?
Please tell.
 
MrK   11/11/2007 2:28 PM
48 .  The vicked are rolling on and on, rolling stones
This is the third or the fourth time I suppose the one mans show appears like a gang of evilthinkers on the row. Stop this nonsense DOYs!
 
MrK   11/11/2007 11:49 AM
49 .  Dayan. Paul was "out of his mind" as Festus said
Festus got it right when he told Paul that he was "out of his mind" (Acts 26:24). Paul could not help boasting about all of his "visions and revelations" (2 Corinthians 12:1) in the very same chapter in which he mocked his christian followers "Yet crafty fellow that I am I caught you by trickery" (verse 16). Despite all of this evidence of Paul''s madness Christians still go to their graves following and believing Paul in the vain hope that the gospel he preached was true. The blind leading the blind indeed.
 
Maurice   11/11/2007 1:17 AM
50 .  To Dayan
Well, Patrick Geaney has not listened to someone explaining this to him before, he just goes on and on in some repentingly scrambling and shouting. He has not listened to or answered people who confront him or explain him in a gentle way that he himself is the person who are tricking others.
You need to read the Schripture yourself, and not listen to persons like him, and you will see from the content that Paul is neither evil nor has he is a tricker, just read everything in connection and you will see it simple, idf not you have listened to trickers yourself, I am afraid...
And Christians are not followers of Saul/ Paul. this is itself a lie, Mister.
 
MrK   11/10/2007 5:56 PM
51 .  It''s True. Xian followers of Saul /Paul are deceived by him
was he mocking his xian followers when he wrote the words "being CRAFTY I caught you by TRICKERY" of 2 Cor 12:16 referred to below?
 
Dayan   11/10/2007 5:48 PM
52 .  cont.
the historicity of the "New Testament," nor that Y''shua/Jesus is/was the Messiah.

So my question to Karl and Ken is : why then are you here at the israeltoday site???? People should not write (like this) here, after my opinion.
Isn''t here more than enough comment givers trying to roll in on the runway line, trying to draw attention to deceiving people away to something quite different from the content in the messages given in the articles written by the staff writers?
This is not fair in you are a branch of the Orthodox Judaism, like tit seems to, and something quite different from the Messianic Jews, and concequently not linked to this article at all.

 
MrK   11/9/2007 11:34 PM
53 .  Well Ken, it''s difficult to see the connection
but I think this may be one possibel one, I am sure there are persons here that see much more. what I see is the following connection:

www.yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_new/articles/PDFs/Addednum%203%20Whole%20Wheat%20Unleavened%20Bread.pdf
From our friend Ken Mentell! From: Mentell, Ken (K.) Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:53 PM. Subject:. Flesh Continued. A couple more thoughts. ...

http://www.seekgod.ca/kon2.htm
http://yourarmstoisrael.net
points to
Rabbi Moshe Yoseph Koniuchowsky
Your Arms To Israel (yati)

which may be connected to

http://www.teshuvah.com/
and there it says:
So the path of Torah-observant Messianic Judaism, also called Nazarene Judaism, for anyone with an open-mind and a desire to find truth, must lead back to the original - to Torah and to Orthodox Judaism. Teshuvah Gate is no longer a "Messianic" or "Nazarene" site. It is an Orthodox Jewish site. The owner of this site no longer believes in the historicity of the "New Testament," nor that
 
MrK   11/9/2007 11:25 PM
54 .  Tamar Yona and Yair Davidity of Britam
From: Mentell, Ken (K.)
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 6:50 AM
To: ''yair''
Cc: ''Tamar Yonah''
Subject: RE: "Brit-Am Now"-1010
See my email below for what possibly what sparked the interview on Arutz 7. I took issue with Tamar saying Joseph doesn''t need to keep the Torah. See Tamar''s note below at the very bottom. Yair never responded when I emailed him. He did say to the reading list that we cannot be as righteous as Judah with a clear bent of making us 2nd grade citizens to Judah. He says below, "that even if these "Joes" were to accept that the Jewish Practices are according to the Biblical Injunctions they would neither want to fulfill all of them and neither, we suspect, would they be able to do so.". WOW. Foot in mouth. This is one of our spokesmen? I think not. See my attached website for a more correct view of Joe''s return. We are not Noahides. We are Joseph, a Full Son of Israel, Inheritor of the laying on of hands and Blessing and Birthright of Israel.Don''t forge
 
Ken   11/9/2007 2:38 PM
55 .  To SJ Baker
I suppose you are not linked to Ken and Karls group???
To me it does not smell too good all of this??
 
MrK   11/7/2007 11:35 PM
56 .  The Return of Joseph (Ephriam the Prodigal son)
What is the Fullness of the Gentiles (Ephriam)? When does it happen? Why should you want to know, and how will it affect you? Why is it’s timing tied to the Sign of the Son of Man?

What are people missing by spiritualizing the message of Yeshua away? And why do we need to become one flesh with Yeshua? Who is His bride?

Why was healing associated with Yeshua’s testimony?

What has Christianity failed to teach in the past two millennia?

Who has the Testimony of Yeshua and what are His Torah/Commandments?

http://home.insightbb.com/~teachingyeshua/index.htm
 
Karl   11/7/2007 9:38 PM
57 .  Rabbi Kaduri & the Flesh of Messiah, Regrafting of Branches
Why Jews refuse to accept a Messiah who has fallen flesh...and why they are right...How do we reconcile this paradox?

What does the Battle of the Image of YHWH with the Image of the Beast have to do with You?

Why man no longer produces seed in the Image of YHWH…

The 10 Commandments/Expressions of the Image of YHWH and why we need YHWH’s image restored in our flesh...

http://home.insightbb.com/~teachingyeshua/index.htm

 
Ken   11/7/2007 9:37 PM
58 .  Rabbi Kaduri & the Flesh of Messiah, Regrafting of Branches
Why Jews refuse to accept a Messiah who has fallen flesh...and why they are right...How do we reconcile this paradox?

What does the Battle of the Image of YHWH with the Image of the Beast have to do with You?

Why man no longer produces seed in the Image of YHWH…

The 10 Commandments/Expressions of the Image of YHWH and why we need YHWH’s image restored in our flesh...

http://home.insightbb.com/~teachingyeshua/index.htm

 
Ken   11/7/2007 9:36 PM
59 .  Rabbi Kaduri & the Flesh of Messiah, Regrafting of Branches
Why Jews refuse to accept a Messiah who has fallen flesh...and why they are right...How do we reconcile this paradox?

What does the Battle of the Image of YHWH with the Image of the Beast have to do with You?

Why man no longer produces seed in the Image of YHWH…

The 10 Commandments/Expressions of the Image of YHWH and why we need YHWH’s image restored in our flesh...

http://home.insightbb.com/~teachingyeshua/index.htm

 
Ken   11/7/2007 9:32 PM
60 .  Contentious fools, that twist the Tenach of Yeshua

What do you think? That Yeshua read the ''''new testament''''? He was HaTorah- the walking Word of G-d!
Who are these Christians, that deny the Tenach, whose prophecies Yeshua fulfilled and yet will return and fulfill even again . Those Christians -who deny the Shabat and worship on Constantines''''s Sun-day.
And celebrate the Xmas of Saternalia and the Easter of Ishtar? rather than obey the perpetual feasts of Lev 23! ( As Yeshua did)
You erroneously claim to be ''''''''not under the law''''''''- What then are you under? The false assumption that ''''Jesus came to start a new religion called Christianity?"

Yeshua ( what his mother called him) never converted.
He was and is and forever will be a Jew... Salvation is of the ?????

(SJ Baker 10/3/2007 7:38 PM)



 
SJ Baker   11/7/2007 5:32 AM
61 .  Contentious fools, that twist the Tenach of Yeshua

What do you think? That Yeshua read the ''''new testament''''? He was HaTorah- the walking Word of G-d!
Who are these Christians, that deny the Tenach, whose prophecies Yeshua fulfilled and yet will return and fulfill even again . Those Christians -who deny the Shabat and worship on Constantines''''s Sun-day.
And celebrate the Xmas of Saternalia and the Easter of Ishtar? rather than obey the perpetual feasts of Lev 23! ( As Yeshua did)
You erroneously claim to be ''''''''not under the law''''''''- What then are you under? The false assumption that ''''Jesus came to start a new religion called Christianity?"

Yeshua ( what his mother called him) never converted.
He was and is and forever will be a Jew... Salvation is of the ?????

(SJ Baker 10/3/2007 7:38 PM)



 
SJ Baker   11/7/2007 5:22 AM
62 .  And I will add to Patrick
What is some kind of a sprinkle of some rest of the traces of God from your way of behaveior right now, it,s good that you stay only here under this article IF you still IN SPIT OF advices from two or three witnesses, like in trials, go on printing your screwed stuff here in this web site. It IS NOT your property and YOUR home, GO OUT!
As you see we are here watching at you, NOT luring as your self. THis is directly talk and PLAIN talk: sTOP THIS NONSENSE FROM YOU TO EVERYBODY AND ANYBODY!AND DO IT NOW, RIGHT NOW. NOW1
 
MrK   11/3/2007 12:20 PM
63 .  Patrick, Never a truer word spoken...
How often it is that it is the things that we do ourselves that we accuse others of doing.

That it seems that you are a master in the game of trickery, Saul/Paul is your enemy. Since so many centuries ago that Paul had cast you out of the woman in Acts, you are trying to get your own back at him (Paul).

As Bible Scholar has said:- give it a rest on this site. - Beshem Yeshua Hamashiach.

 
Sarah   11/3/2007 6:28 AM
64 .  MrK: Your msg rec''d Patrick - Totally MrK!
Give it a rest Patrick
 
Bible scholar   11/2/2007 10:42 AM
65 .  Your message is received Patrick
And I see it is spread out over several articles under headline news in this evening.
Why and how long Mister DOY?

Don''t you yourself see that is obvious to everybody, they can see and get to know your own try in trickery, right here in front of our eyes.
You are not beleived, my friend.
 
MrK   11/1/2007 9:01 PM
66 .  "being CRAFTY I caught ye by TRICKERY" (2 Cor 12:16)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html
 
Saul/Paul founder of christ-ianity   11/1/2007 6:11 PM
67 .  I look for you if you are still responding
each evenings, but please wait to tell so much about yourself until we get connected in a proper way and find a good and useful place to communicate about this personal matter. I would prefer somewhere other place from here.
 
MrK   10/30/2007 10:32 PM
68 .  If you want to talk more about this
I can well listen to you if you like.
 
MrK   10/30/2007 10:27 PM
69 .  I see Michael
I don''t want to mistrust you.
 
MrK   10/30/2007 10:25 PM
70 .  and if you were shown by god that....
you are a jew how would you know that or how would he tell you or show you. don''t get me wrong i had a lot of visions and saw a lot of things but there is just some things that are to hard to believe.
 
michael   10/30/2007 9:58 PM
71 .  i am asking this because a lot of jews were....
sent all over the world and would it be possible at some point in time that a certain family or tribe was kept in the dark to protect them or to hide them from the truth, or that circumstances happen in a way that they were not told who they were because of adoption ro death.
 
michael   10/30/2007 9:53 PM
72 .  If not
you are only just kidding....and only trying to get yourself a little pleasure and a little fun.... ??
 
MrK   10/30/2007 9:00 PM
73 .  I see
you also have raised the same question under another article, so You possibly get your answer there.

If you don''t say more here it should possibly be okay with you, I guess..
 
MrK   10/30/2007 5:32 PM
74 .  Michael, who are you directing this question to, and why?
is it in reference to the written article by Mike or is it to comments sharers or to whom?
Will you please explain what you are wanting to see more enlightend by this question of yours, please?
 
MrK   10/29/2007 7:29 PM
75 .  i got an important question to ask!!!
what caracterises a jewish person as such. is it belief, ancestry, physical appearence, or is it his love for a country he never set foot in, in his physical lifetime
 
michael   10/29/2007 6:17 PM
76 .  And now we pray
for a time of peace to your people Lord, that your message to us all may prosper and be well received.
And now we pray that many persons may find the good and prepared circumstances to see and hear your thoughts, ways and plans for all of us.
Let this site be calm and silent and protected from evil thinkers and evil doers trying to disturb Your work and to drawing attention to magnify themselves.
We want Your name to be lifted up among us, so people may praise and worship You alone, Heavenly Father, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named. Praise to You in Yeshua''s name. Amen.
( Ephesians 3, 14 ff.).
 
MrK   10/28/2007 3:31 PM
77 .  Thank you MrK
..HaEl''''s love and shield.

Is His word presented and applied.

.. if such people like all these are not given response and challenged in some way or other.. they just go on and on.

True. That''s the only reason why I post. I see their attempts to lead people away from the eternal security found only in Yeshua Moschiach. While always understanding people have choice whether to believe on Yeshua or not, but never let a believer in Yeshua stand idly by withholding scripture while anti-Christ''s attempt defamation and deceit against His word towards those who do not know His word or are beginners at best. Yeshua rose for all, He cares.

Thanks MrK.

 
Bible scholar   10/28/2007 10:56 AM
78 .  cont.
program workers Patrick and Kent. To me Patrick is seemingly in mature age and Kent is seemingly quite young like I also think Rebekah is (I would guess less than thirty years old).
The almost complete story you may find in all the produced comments given under Politics, Christian- Jewish relations under fire, and Christian- Israeli connection in jeopardy, and of course much ongoing discussion under the headline news articles. I appreciate some ongoing observants and if apprepriate support under the guidance of HaEl''s love and shield.
In amidst the waves there is easy to get a little tired sometimes...but not all the time, it''s also possibel to get the renewed strenght we need, because we know for sure where to go to receive it.

 
MrK   10/28/2007 9:35 AM
79 .  There is still one other cult
presented at this site, we can see in comments given by Kent under head line news again these days, and which is called the Yadayahweh.
I responded to him, and after this there is so far silence, and I hope not only for a period, but who knows? And I suppose that if such people like all these are not given response and challenged in some way or other, I am afraid they just go on and on.

Some special set of nerves is however to be seen in some other strange mixture deceit set of thinking written here by Moschiach Rebekah, who are seemingly still fighting, writing from my home country like I am doing, and it is strange it seems we do not live far away from each others, but as far as I know we do not know each others. And she is very eager to parrot the U.S. Rabbi Tovia Singer and she is preaching also the Noahide Laws, which is a new teaching seemingly to be rooted in Israel, as it seems to me so far, and this special character woman is even more challenging than her parallel program workers Patrick
 
MrK   10/28/2007 9:26 AM
80 .  yes, I also had to ask this question Bible scholar
and I got the simple explanation myself. Here you are:
Well, the DOY is one of the Disiples of Yeshuwa and the DOYs are these members of the sect aka terence, christian, sutton, just a reader, all of them with the same personality like their cult leader, who has showed much hatred towards the Christians and the Messianics, and who especially find it worthy to be righteous and humble in his fighting towards the Rav Shaul who met Yeshua on his road to Damascus ones upon a time, and who heard a voice said to him: Shaul, why are you persecuting Me?
Patrick is eager in showing the way to his web page all the time. It does not seem to work much as we still have problems. Like the followers of Yeshua in old times were called christians by others, also the DOY is a name given to them by the comment givers at this site, but as far as I can judge this is the only similarity to find between the followers of Yeshua and the DOYs.

 
MrK   10/28/2007 9:23 AM
81 .  MrK - What''s a DOYs?

 
Bible scholar   10/28/2007 3:11 AM
82 .  To Geaney (aka: terence, christian, sutton, just a reader
Go read your Bible - all of it.

"But you," He said to them, "who do you say I AM?"

Shim`on Kefa answered, "You are the Mashiach, the Son of the living God."

"Shim`on Bar-Yochanan," Yeshua said to him, "how blessed you are! For no human being revealed this to you, no, it was my Father in heaven.

I also tell you this: you are Kefa," (which means `Rock,'')" and on this rock (solid faith and testimony in Yeshua) I will build my Community, and the gates of Sh''ol will not overcome it. Matthew 16:15-18

Complete Jewish Bible

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=Matthew+16%3A15-19§ion=0&version=cjb&new=1&oq=&NavBook=mt&NavGo=28&NavCurrentChapter=28
 
Bible scholar   10/28/2007 1:03 AM
83 .  Amen Sarah

 
Bible scholar   10/28/2007 12:46 AM
84 .  He who fights and run away
will live to fight another day.

The kingdom of God is coming, and I know exept a man is born of water and of Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

for which is born of the flesh is flesh

and which is born of the Spirit is Spirit

From a CD Songs of the Bride, words and music by Ronen Shalom
 
MrK   10/27/2007 4:36 PM
85 .  So what do you thinkis going on, Sarah?
if you will like to say something about what you think about all this mess from the DOYs? Is they only one lonely person do you think?
 
MrK   10/27/2007 4:28 PM
86 .  ooh la la!!!!!!!!
Something is at work to infuriate Terence so.


 
Sarah   10/27/2007 1:46 PM
87 .  And Bible Scholar do not blaspheme. This is a lie.
How can people be so silly, stupid and aggressive, trampling on persons, cutting the air with swords, luring, manipulating, not grown up puberty like, self magnifying etc. as Patrick Geaney without being lonely like a horse rider in the desert?
This is unbelievable.
And some persons are shifting personalities as well, beleiving they are different persons with diferent personalities, but the writers here from the DOYs may well be different persons with the equal personalities, because this may well be a sign of the sectarians cults prospering in the shadow of the light, a little light and much more dark to discover if you go near to them, so watch out the catch the unbalanced and not grown up ones if they can manage... For myself I have experienced too much to be deceived of THEM. But deceiving is really deceitful, so we all have to be aware and stay awake.
 
MrK   10/27/2007 11:55 AM
88 .  And may be Terence also is a variant of Patrick?
And why does he want to open these textbox with that attitude and lack of respect and tolerance to other human beiings?
It is obvious that those who set themselves under the pulpit of such liars and manipulators only gain one or two results: 1. Beiing one alike person to his or her teacher if there are any more listeners left after some time. 2. To be totally wasted inwards as a friut of these evildoers teaching and deeds, so they have got their own "salary" in seeing this.
My advice is: Run to some ministers to sectarian victims there are a lot of victims all alround everywhere, some of them have got power and ability to serve others recently captured with the help, comfort and advices as they themselves have got.
Glory to Ha El, and to no man, where one of the most pityful to see right here is for sure Patrick.

I have got a word from the Holy Bible to share: the words in Hebrew 6, verses 7-8.
 
MrK   10/27/2007 10:20 AM
89 .  (Mrs) Bible scholar: How dare you blaspheme!!
Mrs Bible scholar. You dare to write "Vayiqera" (He called) is irrelevent to Isaiah 9:5-6". What appalling blasphemy. You PUBLICLY acknowledge that "Vayiqera" contains the important words "He called" not "is called" or "shall be called" (If you truly knew Hebrew you would know that it translates as "and He called") and yet dare to write that these words uttered by the spirit of The Holy one are "irrelevant"!!. You and your suppporters who are metaphorically "clinging to your skirt" are definitely like all "LIARS" outside of the kingdom of heaven.

The "wise" should never again even open your diabolical comments in this or any page so you will be "gnashing your teeth" ONLY to each other.

 
Terence   10/27/2007 4:12 AM
90 .  Terence,
Never rely on another for your spiritual well being. Learn Tanakh wholly, not piecemeal in context and practice. Torah requires the Kings and Priests of Israel to have a personal Torah for daily study. He also commanded all the families of Israel do likewise. In such, Israel would know true from false whether from Jew or Gentile.

Avoid cultic liars like Geaney. Read our earlier posts where he signed himself “Christian” and “just a reader”. Weigh such character against what King David said.

Last, Christian’s never promised Israel a Messiah – HaShem did. Yeshua ben David is the Messiah, Son of God, and Kinsman Redeemer - there is no other name under heaven and in earth by which one can be saved unto eternal life.

G-d bless.

JPS is the best Tanakh (Jewish Bible)
http://www.breslov.com/bible/
________________________

“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equ
 
Bible scholar   10/27/2007 12:52 AM
91 .  Terence
"Vayiqera" (He called) is irrelevent to Isaiah 9:5-6. This isn’t the sole Tanakh passage designating Moschiach is God. *

Isaiah wrote in Hebrew. Therefore, the name “Mighty God” “EL Gibbor” originated from Jews and not Christians.

HEBREW

"Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom"

HEBREW = ENGLISH

Pele-joez = Wonder of a Counselor

EL-Gibbor = Mighty God

Abi-Ad = Father of Eternity

Sar-Shalom = Prince of Peace

*See links for Isaiah, Daniel, Micah, King David, etc. regarding Yeshua.

G-d bless.

____________________________

Messiah

http://need-messiah.blogspot.com/

http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/001-Ebook-Chp-1-12.html

http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/001-Ebook-Chp-1-13.html

http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/011-Ebook-Chp-11-2.html

http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/011-Ebook-Chp-11-5.html

http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/012-Ebook-Chp-12-4.html

ht
 
Bible scholar   10/26/2007 11:46 PM
92 .  Works of the Devil
Such works of the Devil is the way Patrick reads that Christians existed at the time of the scripture utterance in John 15 : 24 when Jesus was referring to the Temple hierarchy . The followers of Jesus at that time were not His enemies . But Patrick or Patricia YOU ARE !!!!
 
Norman D   10/26/2007 11:03 PM
93 .  How do you know
that Bible sholar is a woman, and if she is, what is the difference, do you think Patrick? Do you need two or three women to one man, may be? Why and how long do you want to copy the same point, patrick? Is this the only important one for you? Why?
 
MrK   10/26/2007 4:59 PM
94 .  DELIBERATE christian CORRUPTION of Isaiah 9:5 (6)
Yeshuwa` Mashiyach declares that his enemies such as the Christ-ian clergy, and their followers such as the woman "Bible scholar" and her entourage "have both seen and hated me and My Father as well" (John 15:24). These christ-ian enemies of "Yehvah Elohiym and His beloved son Yeshuwa'''' Mashiyach" (Psalm 2) DELIBERATELY corrupt the blessed words in Isaiah 9:5 (6) in order to PUBLICLY "DENY" BOTH "Yehvah Elohiym The Everlasting Father and His beloved son Yeshuwa'''' Mashiyach" ( 1 John 2:22. Jude 1:4).

It is written: "For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government is upon his shoulder and The Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty Strong, Everlasting Father He called (Hebrew: vayiqera) his name ''''PRINCE OF PEACE" (Isaiah 9:5 emphasis mine)
Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa'''' Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom8.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/26/2007 9:45 AM
95 .  Ola! Terence.
Honestly, I had no intent to "name calling". I''m calling it as I see and know it from scripture and established history.

Your "Vayiqera" question is fair. I humbly and respectfully will to reply, but I have a "Biblical Hebrew" class in 15 minutes. I will reply afterwards at the earliest.

In the interim, here are Tanakh scriptures for additional consideration.

Bereshit 3:22 Bereshit 3:22 Bereshit 11:7 Bereshit 18:1-2 Yisheyah 7:14 Yisheyah 9:5 Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14 Jeremiah 32:17-19 Micah 5:2

Thank you. G-d bless.

*Tanakh (Jewish Bible) link: http://www.breslov.com/bible/
 
Bible scholar   10/26/2007 2:01 AM
96 .  Dear MrK: no thanks to me.
When I forget the Bible I soon revert to ignorance. When I remember and practice it quantifiable understanding arrives. So my soul loves God’s word and principles. I''ve witnessed it accomplish the impossible again and again. I have *never* seen it fail in practice, history, behavior, business, law, the sciences, archeology, biology, eschatology, mathematics, etc. so I want everyone to know the Bible’s incomparable magnificence! Thanks to HaShem. Thanks to Yeshua. Thanks to Israel.

God bless you dear brother in Yeshua.

“Your word is a light unto my path, and a lamp unto my feet.” Tehilim (Psalms) 119:105
 
Bible scholar   10/26/2007 1:49 AM
97 .  Dear MrK: no thanks to me. thank you.
Most of my life I was ridiculed for being a “dingbat” “silly dumb blond” and “a stupid fool”. I was the humiliated brunt of many jokes.

In Christ, I started praying, studying, and practicing the Bible daily as an athlete in training. God''s word soon provided the wisdom it abundantly promises. I used scripture as my “filter” remembering it, cross-referencing it as the foundation for living to my astonishment and ridicules’ silence, I suddenly became intellectually respected well beyond my professional, personal, and educational experience.
 
Bible scholar   10/26/2007 1:47 AM
98 .  Patrick G
Are you implying that the Pharisees were Christian . Boy you are really out there aren''t you ? I''m sure your little world is falling in on now! If that is all you can try to use even with the Satanic spin you use , then you have just about ran out your string here . Leave us Satan
 
Norman D   10/26/2007 1:39 AM
99 .  Bible scholar: If you disagree about the Hebrew "Vayiqera"
If you disagree with what I wrote in my reply to Patrick Geaney concerning the Hebrew word "Vayiqera" [Isaiah 9:5] why did you not simply say so without using up 2 comments on nothing but personal abuse and name calling against me?.

I now courteously and respectfully invite you to show why you do not agree with me and Patrick Geaney that "Vayiqera" can ONLY be translated as "and He called" (Genesis 1:5. Leviticus 1:1. Isaiah 9:5 etc). Thank you

 
Terence   10/25/2007 11:56 PM
100 .  thank you Bible scholar
the Doy members are doing what is to be expected from them, and they have their hidden agenda going on.
But their house in not ours house, and everyone have to choise for themselves which roof they go in under. And I thought Patrick himself was the leader of the group???
I don''t think he is interesting in listening, but may be others see your teachings, and I like it, Bible scholar. We know that truth will set people free, so just let the light which has come in to you from the Holy Word of God shine out to our brethren!
 
MrK   10/25/2007 10:20 PM
101 .  Hebrew to English: El-Gibbor means "Mighty God"
Regardless what Bible one reads Hebrew is Hebrew, and "El-Gibbor" in Hebrew means "Mighty God" in English.

"For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us and the government is upon his shoulder and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom." Yisheyah 9:5

"Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom" is translated "Wonder of a Counselor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace"...

His name is Yeshua Moschiach, Jesus the Christ, The Anointed One, Immanuel - meaning: "God With Us".

Amen.

"Therefore the L-rd Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Yisheyah 7:14
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 8:27 PM
102 .  Terence: Another quicksite cult member (cont.)
Prior and during the days of Christ the pagans possessed a pantheon of false deities. If one wanted healing, wealth, fertility, etc. they’d visit the idol maker and say, “Which idol grants healing, wealth, fertility..?”. The idol maker would sell them the pertinent idol. When their expectation failed they’d smash it and say, “You’re not my god because you don’t do what I want!” That is exactly what your cult is doing regarding HaShem and Messiah Jesus.

Souls and idiots intuitively realize following Jesus Christ means they’ll have to submit to His will and Tanakh – not theirs. Thus, scripture reveals your cult attempts to pave the way for anti-Christ who you expect will do it your way even as you deny the true Christ to the loss of your souls.
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 8:09 PM
103 .  Terence: Another quicksite cult member
"Stones" is non-exemplary to Tanakh’s Masoretic foundation. Isaiah 9:57 is one of hundreds of Messianic scriptures quantified in history.

quicksitemaker.com disciples such as Geaney (aka: just a reader) and yourself are consistently unable to refute Jesus Christ in Tanakh and NT on close review.

Geaney consistently stumbles upon insurmountable scriptural walls against your infirm doctrines necessitating you disciples rushing to aid with equal speciousness. Your dogma collapses despite your push against disillusionment. (cont.)
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 8:02 PM
104 .  Patrick Geaney-Stones Edition of the Tanakh agrees with you.
Patrick. The christian translators of Isaiah 9:5-7 have subtly changed the translation of the Hebrew word "Vayiquera" meaning "and He called" to instead read "and is called". The disciples of Yeshuwa web site document well and truly demolishes christian so called translations:
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom8.html

Christian renderings of Isaiah 9:5-7 are not translations but interpretations. Yours sincerely Terence.

 
Terence   10/25/2007 6:39 PM
105 .  Geaney: Why are you quoting Jesus who you deny? (cont.)
Geaney your confusion is great, quote the full context of John 15:24 (it starts at John 15:18-27)

..and yet they have hated both me and my Father."

"But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ''They hated Me without reason.''

"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth (Ruach HaKadosh) who goes out from the Father, He will testify about Me. And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning." John 15:18-27
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 3:46 PM
106 .  Geaney: Why are you quoting Jesus who you deny?
Geaney your confusion is great, quote the full context of John 15:24 (it starts at John 15:18-27)

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated Me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

(Note: This "calling out" parallels HaShem''s covenant with Israel).

"Remember the words I spoke to you: ''No servant is greater than his master. If they (Pharisees)persecuted Me, they will persecute you also."

"If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of My name, for they do not know the One who sent me."

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and ye
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 3:44 PM
107 .  Geaney: You need to learn Hebrew
Isaiah 9: 5 For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us and the government is upon his shoulder and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom

"Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom" is translated "Wonder of a Counselor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace"...
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 3:30 PM
108 .  DELIBERATE christ-ian corruption of Isaiah 9:5-7
Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach declares that his enemies such as Christ-ian clergy, professors and bible scholars "have both seen and hated me and My Father as well" (John 15:24). These christ-ian enemies of "Yehvah Elohiym and His beloved son Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach" (Psalm 2) DELIBERATELY corrupt the blessed words in Isaiah 9:5-7 in order to PUBLICLY "DENY" BOTH "Yehvah Elohiym The Everlasting Father and His beloved son Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach" ( 1 John 2:22. Jude 1:4).

It is written: "For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and The Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty Strong, Everlasting Father He called his name ''PRINCE OF PEACE''..." (Isaiah 9:5-7 emphasis mine)
Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom8.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/25/2007 1:14 PM
109 .  The best and only response to anti-Christ''s such as Geaney
is scripture, since it is the same spirit Christ rebuked in the wilderness with scripture.

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

I pray G-d remove the blinders from your mind and heart Geaney. Apostle Paul was forgiven for such blasphemies because he did so in ignorance. Peter was forgiven his thrice denial of Christ. The rest is history.

HaShem says He loves mercy and truth that He''s a forgiving God who LOVES His word, which is soul saving TRUTH.
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 3:52 AM
110 .  "Mighty G-d" is His name.
The Bible speaks for itself regarding Jesus Christ the Messiah.

We''ve already seen what Daniel said in Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14. Hear what Jeremiah, Micah & Isaiah said regarding Jesus the Christ.

For unto us a child is *born*, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:5-7

..the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is His name,
Jeremiah 32:17-19

"...O *Bethlehem*... Judah ...out of you shall come forth to Me

The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose Goings Forth Have Been From of Old,
From Everlasting." Micah 5:2

Whether you read it in Tanakh or KJV it''s the same.
 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 3:40 AM
111 .  Charles, Joyce, Jubal: Thanks for the good reminders

 
Bible scholar   10/25/2007 3:07 AM
112 .  Patrick Geaney
Again you have misinterpreted or your Cult leader has purposely misled you about the scripture you quoted . I will not go into it with you because you know already that you are a disciple of the Antichrist and your duty is to destroy the Israel , Christian brotherhood . Jews that practice Judaism would not espouse what you are saying , Messianic Jews would not either . So you are saboteurs most likely Muslim or just as bad or a weirdo .
 
Norman D   10/25/2007 2:43 AM
113 .  Messianic Jews
R.C., I''m sure that Catholism was not around for over three hundred years Christ . As many Christians as Rome killed including as you call it Messianic Jews I doubt seriously they would embrace anything Roman .
 
Norman D.   10/25/2007 2:29 AM
114 .  messianic jews
all christian jews from the time of the Messiah til present are Catholic. This group is a protestant off shoot
 
rc   10/24/2007 7:52 PM
115 .  Samuel: "The Everlasting Good News of The Kingdom of heaven"
You rightly state that Paul and his christ-ian clergy and supporters are the present day equivalent of the pharisees, sadducees and scribes who likewise opposed Yeshuwa` Mashiyach and his twelve apostles of the Lamb and their "EVERLASTING GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN" (Revelation 14:6. Matthew 4:17. 24:14).

The false apostle ''Paul'' and his christian clergy and supporters "close up the Kingdom of heaven before men" they themselves "do not enter and those who wish to enter do not permit to enter" (Matthew 23:13). They are and will be an "EVERLASTING ABHORRRENCE...IN THAT PLACE WHERE THERE IS WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH" (Matthew 24: 51. 25:46).

http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/23/2007 12:32 PM
116 .  Norman D
I should wish you are right in your strategy, but I also think this strategy has already been tried.
We agree in much, and I share a worri for getting in the nearness of these persons, who act so serpentlike if you watch them. But someone has to take the dirty jobs as well, even if we are cursed by these hateful people. So why should not I stand firm as long as I can. Someone do such, and their evil thoughts in their hearts reveiled will judge who they are, something else than just wishing everybody a CHAG TOV.
 
MrK   10/22/2007 7:03 AM
117 .  Not a Jew and Not a Christian
The Satanic cult Samuel ,Patrick if they are different people and the like are in, is neither of God or followers of Jesus . They are of the Devil . Maybe you will be one of them if you hang around long . They will seduce you . Of course they will use you to help keep their blasphemous discussions going on . Kinda like good cop and bad cop .
 
Norman D   10/21/2007 10:15 PM
118 .  Samuel
And what do you mean about Norman D., is he on another one of your lists?
Do you have many of them? What are they for?
And what about Muriel Wiseman, is he on one list also?
Where is your headquarter, in Ireland or in Tennesee? And have you been to Israel as well, and do you currently have work there or plan to go there?
Or is everything you do nothing for the light?
And why will you not speak personally with Christian leaders etc.? What are you afraid of? The newspapers, may be?
 
MrK   10/21/2007 8:31 PM
119 .  I see that also I am defined into the club
And I do not know wheter it is a honour or a curse from your hands. DOYs.
 
MrK   10/21/2007 5:18 PM
120 .  Patrick Geaney "christian clergy and their supporters"
The disciples of Yeshuwa web site documents on the "False apostle Paul" and "Christian corruptions of scripture" are indeed ''eye-openers'' identifying the roots of the horrors and deceptions within xianity.

I am very pleased to see you rightly ascribe the blame for such "evil fruits" to "Paul (the founder of xianity) and his christ-ian clergy and their supporters" such as MrK, Jubal, Charles etc and DO NOT ATTACH any blame to "their deceived christ-ian followers".

"Paul and his chris-tian clergy and supporters" such as MrK, Jubal and Charles are the present day equivalent of the pharisees, sadducees and scribes who likewise opposed Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach and his twelve apostles of the Lamb and their EVERLASTING GOSPEL "The Good news of the kingdom of heaven".
 
Samuel   10/21/2007 3:39 PM
121 .  Muriel Wiseman, will you explain, please
Do you mean that Patrick Geaney is USING this court decision which concluded that these family would cheat the Israeli Authorities, and they concequently were not allowed to immigrate because of the interpretation of this exact law, as an example of HIS deceptive cult teachings to spread HIS hatred towards the Messianic followers of Yeshua haMaschiach?
If so why do you think he is doing this? What can he gain by doing this do you think?
 
MrK   10/21/2007 8:30 AM
122 .  Patrick Geaney re: ""christians masquerading as Jews"
Shalom Patrick. The Israeli courts have been dealing with many cases of "Christians masquerading as Jews" for purposes of aliyah as you state in your comment. MIke Decker in his article refers to one notable example "Hatshins v. the Minister of Interior. This court decision deals with a family, belonging to the Christian religion, who decided to convert to Judaism in order to immigrate into Israel, by virtue of the "Law of Return". Immediately, when their plot was discovered, their conversion was cancelled, along with their right to immigrate into Israel."

Notice that the sole purpose of the bogus "conversion" from christianity to Judaism was "in order to immigrate into Israel, by virtue of the "Law of Return". The Ministry of the Interior and the Israel courts must be forever vigilant in the face such christian deceptions.

 
Muriel Wiseman   10/21/2007 1:32 AM
123 .  Patrick and his stooges
You are bound for hell fire with your lies . I have never heard such a crock of crap in all of my life . Where are you getting this load of excrement from ? You must have a brain of stale excrement . Even an ignorant Muslim exudes more intelligence than that . Are you a Muslim or working for Assad . Even that Idiot the prez. of Iran makes more sense than the issue that comes from your brain or where ever it comes from . Your cult is as ill advised as they come and you propagate that filth . Just what kind of a Devil are you? You are filthy with lies and blasphemies .
 
Norman D.   10/20/2007 9:26 PM
124 .  Muriel Wiseman: Evil fruits of Paul''s self confessed "LIE"
"being CRAFTY I caught you with TRICKERY" (2 Corinthians 12:16) BOASTED Paul - who founded christ-ianity in Antioch in Syria circa 48 CE - to his christ-ian clergy and supporters.
as he DECEIVED them to WILLINGLY slaughter, torture, physically abuse and rob at least 10 MILLION of the beloved "Children of Yisrael" (Deut 1:3. Revelation 21:12) in christ-ian crusades, holocausts, ghettoes, inquisitions etc.

These SAME evil fruits are still ping from the SAME evil tree of christ-ianity as the SAME diabolical "CRAFT" and "TRICKERY" - including christian corruptions of the Hebrew Tanakh and christ-ians masquerading as Jews - are being employed by present day christ-ian clergy and supporters to secure their diabolical ends. "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE (The Jews)..." (Revelation 18:4)

Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa` Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html
 
Patrick Geaney   10/20/2007 4:52 PM
125 .  RE: Thanks
Forgive me brother MrK, I addressed you as brother Ron, who is another brother in Christ in one of the other sections. Hope you will join us there at the "Festival of Lights" section. May God bless you and your house.
 
Jubal   10/20/2007 3:22 PM
126 .  Thanks
have a nice time. I will take a look, and I will still look for if I see more activities from the DOY people. I do not think they will change so easy as aresult from this, I will just have a little open eyelook for if I can see what people like them are trying to do at this site. People may be strange, and there is for sure a reason that the Holy Word says that we shall not put our trust in men, only HaEl, and that mens hearts is the most deceitful of all. And I am sure others here also are of the same kind.
In the meantime and for ever it is good to fix our eyes at tho Holy One of Israel, Who is for eternity worthy to be exalted and praised, for sure.
And we know He takes care of His children.
 
MrK   10/20/2007 12:53 PM
127 .  RE: Article Commentary
Yes, brother Ron, I do agree that we need to focus on the article written here and not get off the track. Yet even here we fight against the principalities and powers, and must rebuke them when they rear up their ugly head to try and poison new babes in Christ with their poison. Thanks for the info, I will check out the articles you mentioned. Several of us are at the "Festival of Lights" section as it was not being used, so please join our current discussions there. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/20/2007 2:33 AM
128 .  I forgot the two articles you may go to. Here they are

Christian-Jewish relations under fire
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1402

+

Christian-Israeli cooperation
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1376


 
MrK   10/19/2007 11:29 AM
129 .  And just an idea, Jubal...
may be you can go directly to these two articles, at least one of these I first got in contact with the DOY, if you go five months back in time you will see.
You may also go to article number=14221 where you rather better than here may go to answer me, because this is not relevant to this article, I mean, if you like.
(If you don''t know how to go there from here. let me know and I will show you.)

And I hope the rest of the comments to be given here from now on give comments to this article written by Mike Decker and his focus.
 
MrK   10/19/2007 11:27 AM
130 .  Jubal
thank you for seeing my trying to share as something worthable. And what did you mean and say about the communicating to the other one ( not a DOY) writing under headline news, did we communicate about how to be able to meet her in a good way before?
Strange there are so much hatred arising against the pure belief in the Holy One of Israel, sad to say.
 
MrK   10/19/2007 10:14 AM
131 .  And I see: Patrick is not alone either
They are here together now, supporting their false teachers to cooperate in a complete contradictioning task.
If Mike Decker is the ONly One to do the job for the Messianic, and if He succeed, it is not only He who succeed, and I am sure Mice is saticfied with us only if we write to him as a fellow brother at the same level as our self, and not as next to Moschaich or god or the Prome Minister in any country or sect.
The way we talk to each others show our conduct or our spinelessness to each others and to our selves.
It is not about Christians, it is about the Jews calling themselves Messianic. I am sure they do not put the Christian sects into their fellowship, nor will the Israeli Authorities do, may be they are the reason why the Messianic suffer in this way. Stop it DOY!
 
MrK   10/19/2007 9:08 AM
132 .  Quotes by non-christians.
For those of you wishing the end of christianity, you are in perilous company: "Hopefully, I''ll be remembered as the person who brought an end to Christianity" by Marilyn Manson. And don''t forget: "Christianity will go, it will vanish and shrink. I needn''t argue about that. I''m right and will be proved right......We''re more popular than Jesus now". by John Lennon. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/19/2007 5:19 AM
133 .  Mike Decker: The evil xian opposition to "The Law of Return"
The xian promoters of the so called xtian replacement theology promulgated by "the renegade" Saul/Paul have falsely claimed over the last 2,000 years that xians are "the new Israel" and as Patrick Geaney has correctly stated in his comment, "Paul''s evil writings have been used as the grounds for christ-ian persecutions over the last 2,000 years of the beloved "children of Yisrel" (Deut 1:3) "

For this reason I personally am appalled at your attempts Mr Decker to oppose and overturn the strict screening by the Ministry of the Interior and the Israeli courts of christians such as the messianics seeking aliyah whose ONLY PURPOSE is underwrite the evil xian replacement doctrine and adding insult to injury by those same xians staking a claim under false pretences to the very land bequeathed to "Abraham and to his seed - the children of Israel - forever".

 
Muriel Wiseman   10/19/2007 1:58 AM
134 .  Rightly Said MrK!
Amen brother MrK. If anyone would just visit the sight, they would see all the contradiction there. The name "Jesus" is hated by the majority of the world. Recently one of the DOY cultists said that if you look up "false apostle Paul" on the internet, it is filled with information denouncing him. So maybe Paul is hated second only to Jesus in christianity, and that places him in the greatest company. Our Lord did say that many would hate others for His name. God bless you brother for rebuking the DOY cult so that new babes in Christ are not indoctrinated with their poison. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/18/2007 10:42 PM
135 .  The socalled Chr. sects are irrelevant
to the problems in Israel which the Messianics face in relation to the Law of return.
If a Jew goes to one of them they are regarded as Christians anyhow, even if the true Christians do not accept them as true believers in Christ.
But a Jew do not need to convert and to be a Christian to believe as the Messianics do.
But the sects Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and DOY are all to be looked upon as so-called Christian sects.
You may your self see their likeness, and they are all deceived and deceiving people away from the pure Christian belief.
Their web pages are as follows:

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg

http://www.watchtower.org/

http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/corruptionsofscripture.html

don''t be deceived. go to the pure sources. don''t put yourself under such demagogeous persons dominion.
 
MrK   10/18/2007 6:04 PM
136 .  Israel
is a democratic country, consisting of different beliefs.
There are too many New Agers there, Mormons and others.
The DOY people are probably nothing new and special at all for the Israelis, who have so much visitors of all kinds from all countries in the world.
If a DOY is welcomes it is as a Christian, not as a Jew.
And if a Jew is going to be a DOY he is converting into a Christian sect.

The Messianic do not have to convert at all, they are rather more completed as Jews believing in the Jewish Yeshua Ha Maschiach, is this so difficult to understand, so ask the street people if they know any of them? Many do not see difference regarding the Jewish, and if there is this is certainly not something socalled Christian. If so, what exactly should that be? They will not find anything missing link regarding the Jewish. This is something falsely constructed by the DOY, not by any street people neighbors in Israel, after my opinion.
 
MrK   10/18/2007 5:23 PM
137 .  The DOY
are rolling on, they are not Christian.
They are a sect built on the christian faith, but hate the Christians. They confusion and stir the people up by pushing on the nerve string of ordinary Jews who are misinformed about the Messianic.
The DOY will never be Jewish, because they are a so-called Christaian deceiving sect.
They are clever in disturbing the good neighborship between many ordinary not-very-much-practicioning-religious Jews, using the Messianic in their tactick to stir up people. The fruits of their acts are obvious, trying to have focus on their own web page and sectarian society. Is this so difficult to see? For me it is obvious, but they seem to be either blind themselves or a special unclean deceiving party of VIPs.
 
MrK   10/18/2007 5:12 PM
138 .  Israel is a Hebreu Country
Israel is a Hebreu country we are Hebreus we belive in the Hasehm that made the world in 7 days and gived ther Torar to us!
more or less we keep the faith for 5000 years!beleve what you do want beleve but let us as we are Hebreus!
 
Helios   10/18/2007 4:32 PM
139 .  Ryan: You got it right. Jesus christ is a "Trojan horse".
There is no Aliyah problem for those Jews who are "followers of Yeshua" written of by Matthew Mark Luke and John.

The problem clearly arises with those Messianic Jews who are followers of the christian anti-mashiyach "Jesus christ".

Jesus christ was sneaked in like a "Trojan horse" by the renegade Paul in Antioch in Syria circa 48 CE as mentioned by Patrick Geaney.

Patrick''s document on christian corruptions of scripture is a must read for everyone interested in Paul''s deceptive tactics. Its no surprise that there is much "weeping and gnashing of teeth" by every christian clergyman and woman who reads it.
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/corruptionsofscripture.html

 
Joseph   10/18/2007 9:49 AM
140 .  To Ryan and Jubal and all
Ryan it is a little difficult to understand your position.
Jubal you are right and explaining everything plain. thank you.
What is sad is dobble communicating people like Patrick, he is not worthy to lift up.
 
MrK   10/18/2007 7:00 AM
141 .  Correction to "To All".
To correct my typo error, the scripture reference Mr. Geaney uses to Elaine Chapman was 2 John 1:3. Copied directly from the DOY cult website. We should pray for all lost souls, but if one knowingly blasphemes the Holy Spirit, Jesus did say there was no forgiveness for them, ever. And this group attributes Paul''s works to the devil, when scripture written by St. Luke tells of Paul being filled with the Holy Spirit. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/18/2007 4:19 AM
142 .  To: All cont.
Check out www.sacrednamemovement.com and you will see the source of his nonsense. They call this "word idolatry", and it began in the early 1920''s and 1930''s. In mr. Geaney''s site, sometimes he is a disciple of Jesus, and sometimes he calls him the "devil who manifested to Paul as an angel of light and called himself ''christ jesus''". Just go to the site he is advertising on his comments and you will see all of this. Of course if he sees this first, and s the info there. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/18/2007 4:09 AM
143 .  To: All
Those of you have shared a comment with Patrick Geaney or one of his aliases, take him up on his offer to visit his site. Under his "guest comments" section, he tells a reader named Elaine Chapman, that the name Yeshua is the Jewish or Aramaic name for Jesus, of Nazareth. He signs off as "Disciple of Jesus". In a reply to Bob Davies, he signs off as "unworthy servant of Jesus, the Messiah". Though lately, his site talks about the name "Jesus" being antichrist. I invite anyone who would like to see more contradictory statements that would last you a lifetime, go ahead and visit his website. He signs off with Elaine Chapman by saying, "Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you Elaine, and disciples of Jesus everywhere, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father in truth and in love"(John 2:13). Now he says the names, "Lord, Christ, Jesus",are pagan names and wherever they are in scripture, is a forgery by the christian corruptors of scripture. Check out www.sacrednamemovem
 
Jubal   10/18/2007 4:02 AM
144 .  Mike Decker: Present day Messianics and "The Law of Return"
you write "that all the first followers of Yeshua were devout Jews". There is no disputing that fact. However, it seems to me that the real problem confronting the Jewish courts is that their judges and officials know full-well that present day Messianics are not "followers of Yeshua" but are instead followers of the christian jesus. Here, surely, is the hub of the problem as far as "The Law of Return" is concerned

After all the "first followers of Yeshua", you refer to in your interesting article, would NEVER have been followers of the christian jesus for the good reasons outlined by Patrick Geaney and Samuel and Helios in this page. The Israeli courts and officials also know that.

 
Ryan   10/18/2007 12:14 AM
145 .  cont.
Galatians 5:22,23 outlines the fruits of the spirit. So what and where are their fruits? God bless you and all your house brothers in Christ, and we shall see you in the air soon! Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/17/2007 10:54 PM
146 .  Brothers MrK & Jerry Addendum.
Brothers in Christ, they also get their theology from a John/Jon Peniel, a false teacher whose coming was foretold by the false prophet Edgar Cayce. He was stated as bringing into the world "a new spiritual order of things". Sound like another gospel to you? It does to me. Their cloven hoofprints are all over christian sites, poisoning them with their antichrist teachings. On the DOY cult site, they claim that "christ jesus" is the 1st beast and that Paul is the 2nd beast. On a preterist site, the cult leader comments that Paul is the 1st beast and the bisphop of Rome is the 2nd beast. So which is it? I will agree with him that the 2nd beast/false prophet will indeed be a bishop of Rome. I am a non-denominational christian, although brought up in a Baptist church, yet they will continually refer to me as a RC chaplain. Repeatedly I have said I am not RC, and I denounce their blasphemous mass, yet they attribute my offer of prayer to a sister in Christ with cancer as offering "mass" to her. Galatian
 
Jubal   10/17/2007 10:52 PM
147 .  Brothers MrK & Jerry.
Glad to see you have visited the site of the DOY cult MrK. Jerry knows about them, but I do not know if he has visited their site yet. What is puzzling is that this Geaney fellow denounces the name of "Jesus" as antichrist, yet in some of his FAQ on the DOY cult site, he signs off as "servant of Jesus", and "servant of Jesus, Messiah". It is only later that he begins signing as the "unworthy servant of Adoniy Yeshuwa Mashiyach". I bid him no harm, yet he attacks my Lord and Saviour and blasphemes the Holy Spirit by attributing the works of Paul to the devil. Check out the site, www.sacrednamemovement.com as it will give you some idea of where some of their theology comes from. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/17/2007 10:37 PM
148 .  cont.
firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14 and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

New International Version.

what IS important here is that the Jews do NOT need to convert to believe in their Jewish Moschiach, Yeshua HaNazareen. By the way, some say that Hitler was from Jewish origin,this is probably also one lie, but many honest people nowadays don''t know what to believe any longer, as the confusions seem to be emerging more and more, like the Jewish Yeshua also foretold? ( Matthew 24.)
 
MrK   10/17/2007 10:14 PM
149 .  cont.
6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
7 "The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem''s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit [a] of grace and supplication. They will look on [b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn so
 
MrK   10/17/2007 10:03 PM
150 .  cont. ( Zechariah 12)
1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, ''The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.''

6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but J
 
MrK   10/17/2007 10:01 PM
151 .  The word of God is not lying
and I myself am not a Jew, but I am beleiving in the Jewish Yeshua HaMaschiach, is this a crime in your sight it is not my problem. And if you believe that a Jew is not to believe in Maschiach you may one day find that HaEl has a surprise for you.
Zechariah 12:
1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, ''Th
 
MrK   10/17/2007 9:59 PM
152 .  Jews becoming Christians
If a jew believes that Christ is the Messiah he is no longer jewish. He has become a christian. Which is fine but please stop lying to yourself and others about your jewish heritage. You gave that up when you converted to christianity. The only one that would consider you still a jew would be adolph hitler.
 
Larry   10/17/2007 7:05 PM
153 .  cont.
local believers in Israel do.

I think that their local neighbors give them a good testamony, for sure, as true believers, not as sectarians, I mean.

Hopefully in this way the society in Israel change in a right direction, little by little.
And Mike Decker also seem to be a good example of a good citizen, I suppose.

And I hope the DOY people see their own doubble communication as hating these, spreading hate and at thesame time think they are able to grasp others out of the tru and balanced way into their hidden agenda VIP secret rooms with unworthy servants liek Patrick playing the role as a guru worthy to be lifted up in the midst of the community. If feel almost sick by only thinking of this.
 
MrK   10/17/2007 4:46 PM
154 .  Thank you Jerry
what I found out is that they seam to ce a sect build from the Christian sources and who will give an impression of that they are Jewish rooted. But if they have the signs of beiing something outward and something else inward, they are not balanced and the fruits are obvious.
They are filled with hate towards true Christian and Messianic believers and at the same time they seem to wake under the surface and at once they discover some new believers or persons ineterested in knowing more about these matters, the unworthy servant suddenly jump out from his hidingplace like the little lizard who lived in the shelther in Eilat at Crazy John''s house, to pick up some little insect creeping by. Have you visited his place? may be. He is a good example of a Christian believer married to a Jewish Messianic and they serve their community together with their family, and their work are doing some nice and significant difference to their neighbors in this city, like many of the local believers in Israel do. I think that
 
MrK   10/17/2007 4:40 PM
155 .  Mrk
The DOY you read about is the Disciples of Yeshuah . Actually Patrick Geaneys bunch of antichrist . So Patrick won''t talk to you ? Not even under an assumed name ? Really they call themselves the Unworthy servant & disciple of Yeshuah .
 
Jerry   10/16/2007 11:24 PM
156 .  By the way
I do not agree that a prove of seeing different churches along the road is at all a bad sign. Who are you to judge like this? Of course there may be bad ways of dividing from each others, but who are you to judge like that saying it surely is a bad thing? If you think persons are right to believe in what they believe in, as long as they respect others as well, and act in a respectful way acording to their teachings. Hwy cannot breathren have different houses side by side? Where is the logical reflection here? Their neighbors need a true witness and they need it differently from person to person, because we are all of us different from our neighbors, or haven''t you met any of them recently, so you have forgotten how your self is different from the others? And why do everyone believe they themselves are the Only and best Nr. One? Is this logic way of thinking or feeling? Shame on you, my brethren and sisters, thinking like this.
 
MrK   10/16/2007 9:06 PM
157 .  As Jerry has not answered yet,
do you know anything about the so-called DOY, Patrick, or do you still not want to communicate with me as long as you cannot do this hidden or in secret.
I know that sects have two sets of agendas, one openly and one hidden, secretly for the inner circle VIP persons. Do you also know about such practice like this after your experience Mister?
 
MrK   10/16/2007 7:58 PM
158 .  I forgot
Does the Holy Word compare persons with animals and birds like vultures and wolves sometimes?
If so, why?
Is this something relevant, or is it more about only "pure" deceit?
 
MrK   10/16/2007 7:48 AM
159 .  Dear Jerry
I wonder if you will like to explain to me what is a DOY and who are these DOY people in action right here and now?
I am sorry I am not common to this expression, but I am sure I know more if you please explain this clearly to me, if you like to. Thank you for your wise share.
 
MrK   10/16/2007 7:29 AM
160 .  Helios: Christian persecutions of Sepharadim Jews.
Shalom Helios. The Christian persecutions of your beloved people the Sepharadim Jews were not carried out in the name of any "Hebrew" as you wrongly assume. The name of "jesus christ" is not the name of any "Hebrew" but is the name of the false messiah who was first introduced to the world by the false apostle Paul who founded christ-ianity in Antioch in Syria around the year 47 CE. Paul''s evil writings have been used as the grounds for christ-ian persecutions over the last 2,000 years of the beloved "children of Yisrel" (Deut 1:3) which include your people the Sepharadim.

May you Helios and your beloved Sepharadim people be enabled by ruach HaQadowsh to behold your promised Jewish mal''ak and mashiyach in the person of Yeshuwa`Mashiyach the only begotten son of Yehvah Elohiym, Elohey Yisrael" (Deut 18:15. Psalm 2. Matthew 2:2. 16:16).
Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "adoniy Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http:www.quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/16/2007 2:38 AM
161 .  Samuel
How about some references for those good reasons . I don''t think any one is trying to shove Jesus down anyone''s throat . It was the "DOY" boys that started berating my Lord . Oh by the way Hitler was also Jewish , but he like the DOY boys will do anything to separate themselves from their roots . You worship the sun or moon if you want, it''s your right as long as you don''t smear my Lord Jesus Christ . When you stir it up , expect a response .
 
Jerry   10/16/2007 1:56 AM
162 .  It is necessary to differ between formal and true ones
The true Christians are peace loving and respecting others also if they believe and act in another way than themselves, but loving is difficult, and love in hearts can not be produced af the Christians themselves, it has to be received as a gift poured out from heaven into the believers hearts by grace. Like a fountain well springing forth inside persons hearts from the reading of the Holy Word and as an answer to prayers, from the fellowship with true worshippers and from taking part as a believer in the breaking of the bread and drinking of the wine as a remembrance of Yeshua in the Lord''''s meal/ supper.
You may find the true ones by judging after their shown fruits, I suppose, but who can measure the depts in mens hearts? Only God can do that. He is the One to judge, and I am glad to know that.
 
MrK   10/15/2007 8:17 PM
163 .  If Jesus Christ
If Jesus was really the God sun why he does brought peace to the world and why Hashem does extermineted the humans!!!!??? I am sefaradin and I know very well what was made by the catolic church in the name of Jesus Christ and he was a Hebreu also!when the Missian comes he will lokking for us not for any Muslem and christians why??????if we are to bad? we give the world alot of cientistes writers, the Blue Jeans that also the terroristens using was made in by Mr Straus he was a Jewish!!!!!!!why wear some thing made by one of us????
 
Helios   10/15/2007 2:39 PM
164 .  Jerry: Millions of Jews murdered in the name of Jesus christ
So there is no way that I or any right thinking Jew would want your jesus christ or worship him or your trinity.

Anytime I hear jesus christ mentioned by his followers it is used by them to blaspheme and curse each other and used as an excuse to name-call or even murder those who dont agree with them. Jubal and English Lad confirms that Christians do not love themselves not alone love me or their neighbours as the thousands of their "competing factions", referred to by brave Marianne, prove.

I FULLY respect your right to follow your jesus christ and will not call you by any derogatory names but please do not try to shove him down the throats of those who reject him for, what for them are, very good reasons.
 
Samuel   10/15/2007 11:52 AM
165 .  Gordon Andrews and Marianne with the IRA?

 
English Lad   10/15/2007 6:02 AM
166 .  Amen Brother Jerry.
Such welcome comments among these serpents Jerry. Yes, we all claim Jesus as Lord and Saviour, so what do they claim? I believe you are right, they are competing with Jesus Christ. Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit, though, there is no forgiveness for them. Not my words, but Jesus said this. And FTI, I am not a member of any of the 1000''s of factions of christianity. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/15/2007 3:44 AM
167 .  Dear Marianne.
Have you always possessed this hatred of others? Is not the 2nd greatest commandant to love others as we love ourselves? We can pray for our loved ones without it being a "mass" said for them. I understand very little about the blasphemous RC mass, but I do not that praying for other children of God is not saying "mass" for them. This person, Joyce has made it known that she has a cancer in her body, and all you can do is ridicule? Where is the fruits of the spirit within you? Though you only have hatred for me, I only have love for you. There is only one way to the Father, and Jesus told us it was Himself, and I believe it with all my heart. So please do not refer to me as a RC, as they suscribe to a savation by works and mix paganism in their beliefs. May God bless you my neighbor. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/15/2007 3:35 AM
168 .  RE: DOY cult and followers.
For the second time, I say, I am not a Roman Catholic. I was raised up in a Baptist church, but am non-demoninational. I know very little about Catholicism and even less about their blasphemous mass. John Peniel, Ray Belval, Patrick Geaney and others will cause you to lose your soul. So since I and others here have told you the truth, then your blood is no longer on our hands. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/15/2007 2:39 AM
169 .  Brother Charles and Sister Joyce.
God bless you for defending my comments from the sons of belial. Yes, let us leave this site of ill repute and go to another site to further our love of the truth. There is no repentence for blaspheming of the Holy Spirit. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/15/2007 2:31 AM
170 .  christian churches
Are you sure that they are competing with each other or with you ? They all claim Jesus don''t they ?
It sounds like you''re competing with Jesus Christ . You will loose In the end you will look upon the Lord Jesus Christ whom you rejected and the Jews will embrace Him and it will be too late for you people who are imposter''s .
 
jerry   10/14/2007 9:57 PM
171 .  Marianne: Christian "factions" are proofs of a bad tree.
"10 different and competing christian churches in one road in Belfast" is a graphic description of the "bad fruit" ping from the tree of christianity.

The thousands of "distinct and competing christian churches", who are greedily competing with each other for "the souls of men" (Revelation 18:13), will ensure the complete self- destruction of christianity. It is no surprise that "The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning" (Revelation 18:15).

Who, in their right mind, would want anything whatsoever to do with christianity or any one of her factions?.
 
Samuel   10/14/2007 9:25 PM
172 .  And I hope
that the Messianics inside Israel see their opportunities and their possibilities how to give their share in forming the future by having their influence into the interpretation and the application of the future law suites in going in the right direction, as Israel is a democratic society, and the Orthodoxs should be too good to use dirty methods to trying to win their spiritual battle against their neighbors with belief in the Jewish Yeshua HaMashiach, as long as they do not care about welcoming and taking care of real criminals in drugs and prostitution or Jewish deceiving New Age cults of different kinds.
 
MrK   10/14/2007 3:58 PM
173 .  Gordon Andrews: Christian "factions"
thanks for your reply. I visited Northern Ireland about ten years ago and experienced for myself what it is like to be caught up in the factional divide there. I counted 10 different and competing christian churches in one road in Belfast. As you say christian "factions" will never be "pals"
 
Marianne   10/13/2007 1:06 PM
174 .  And the confusion is almost complete?
And the intelligent writer of this article have to view that the participaters are far away from the focus, or may be we are in the center og the confused mixture of everything related to spiritual matters, like it is in the center of Israel, in Yerushalaim, where everybody tries to sell his soul for what they can get paid, as written in the song by David L.
 
MrK   10/12/2007 4:37 PM
175 .  Marianne: Christian ''factions'' will never be "pals"
Interesting point you make about the Roman catholic chaplain "offering mass" for the Baptist. Such practices are not the norm by RC clergy. RC laws strictly forbid "offering mass" for members of other xian factions.

As for they being "pals" this is only a pretence. Here in Northern Ireland, after the bloody xian conflict of the last 30 years, xians are split into at least 60 different factions including at least 4 RC and 10 Baptist factions. The members of each faction despise and hate those not in their particular side of the fence. Clearly the xian kingdom which is so divided "cannot stand" and is doomed for destruction according to the Divine plan.
gordonandrews_91@hotmaI.com

 
Gordon Andrews Northern Ireland   10/12/2007 4:09 PM
176 .  To Jubal
As Charles said, we will comment to you on another site. These people just tell one lie after another, and think nothing of it. But what else can you expect, from those who are serving satan? And the thing is, that the lies they are saying about you, or anyone, are so easy to find out. All anyone has to do to find out the truth, is to check out your comments, from the Debate and Prophecy section, on The Concept of the End Times topic. And they will see, that they are lying, about you being a Roman Catholic, and about your comment on the homosexual and lesbian Christian pastors subject. So, I''m taking your advice, to shake the dust off my feet before them and leave them be. God bless you.
 
Joyce   10/12/2007 6:15 AM
177 .  Jubal
We will see you on that other site . It''s time to leave these Useless Deceivers from Satan and get to the real discussions at hand . These people have only received themselves . They ( or he ) act like mental patients . They have definitely lost it .
 
Charles   10/12/2007 1:28 AM
178 .  RC Chaplain Jubal "offering mass" for the Baptist Joyce
and Joyce says "thanks" !!!.

What is taking place between the ancient enemies within christianity all pals now are we?

 
Marianne   10/11/2007 10:07 PM
179 .  JUBAL A Roman catholic "chaplain for the Confederate Legion"
On 9/20/2007 6.47AM a certain Roman Catholic "chaplain" - under the PSEUDONYM JUBAL A. Early - wrote in Debate and prophecy section ''Concept of the End Times'' of this web site "I am a chaplain for the Confederate Legion" and earlier wrote in defence of homosexual/lesbian christian pastors.

I then wrote in response to him that "I am sure that General Jubal A. Early (who died in 1894) would not approve of homosexual/lesbian christian pastors".

"Jubal A. Early" may shorten his pseudonym to "JUBAL" but cannot hide from the truth.

 
Puzzled   10/11/2007 10:32 AM
180 .  To Jubal
You''re right, we should just ignore them. And I am going to do my best, to do just that. And I am supposed to have a pet scan next week, to make sure there is no spread of the cancer anywhere. I deeply appreciate your prayers, and all those who have been praying for me. And I will let you all know the results, when I get them. God bless you.
 
Joyce   10/11/2007 10:07 AM
181 .  Joyce cont.
cult will call you a liar and false witness and other names if they read something they disagree with, which shows their fruit. There is another person named Ray Belval whose teachings follow this cult. In summary it is another gospel and you know what to do about that. So how about you and the illness you told us about? I am still praying for you daily, and hopefully it will be God''s will to completely heal you. Just enjoy our discussions here and ignore the sons of belial. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/11/2007 9:22 AM
182 .  Joyce
Sister Joyce, this cult thrives on getting christians upset, and having them question if they are secure in their salvation. With just a little investigation, I found these things about this cult. What is even more sad is that new babes in Christ might join this cult before they are secure in the Word. Yes we should pray for the lost, but if there are those who knowingly blaspheme the holy spirit, Jesus said their was no forgiveness for them. And this group attributes Paul''s works to the devil, which is blaspheming the holy spirit. So we cannot pray for them, so just ignore them. They only want to cause deception just like their father the devil. This fellow John/Jon Peniel is who they get there twisted theology from. He claims to have the original manuscripts of scripture. Probably is why they are always crying that the christians have corrupted the scripture since their cult leader has the "original manuscripts" or so he says. Just shake the dust off your feet before them and leave them be. This
 
Jubal   10/11/2007 9:00 AM
183 .  To Jubal
You are absolutely right, we shouldn''t debate with them. But I did want to clarify the point, that being a Baptist minister is not an insult. Which this is a feeling, I seem to get, from others on this site. I know, that there are those, who claim to be Baptist ministers, that do not preach the Word of God. And they give the Baptist ministry a bad name. But, it''s not fair to put all Baptist ministers, in the same catagory as those. Because besides my son, I know several other Baptist ministers who does preach God''s Word, and I''m sure there are many others. And yes, we should point out and rebuke those, who do not preach God''s Word. But, we should also remember, to show our appreciation and spiritual support, for those who do. God bless you.
 
Joyce   10/11/2007 6:28 AM
184 .  DOY cult 2.
Charles and Joyce, a good christian friend of mine knows this cult all too well, and he says they loooooooove to debate christians, and will until He comes in the clouds. All their theology comes from this John/Jon Peniel, whose coming was foretold by the false prophet Edgar Cayce. By attributing the works of Paul to the devil, they have commited the unpardonable sin, for Paul was filled with the holy spirit. This John/Jon Peniel even claims to have all of the original manuscripts of scripture. Check it out for yourselves, and just ignore these sons of belial. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/11/2007 6:19 AM
185 .  DOY cult
Christian brothers and sisters, please do not debate the members of this cult, for this is their trademark. Their site is a plagiarism of a heretic named John Peniel, whose coming was foretold by the false prophet Edgar Cayce. Mr. Cayce prophesied that "Brother John" would bring into the world "a new spiritual order of things". Sound like another gospel to you? The apostle Paul told this would happen, and he is one of the 12 apostles because the 11 did not do as Jesus told them, which was to wait for the holy spirit. They went ahead and chose another apostle, without being with the holy spirit. Jesus chose Paul just like He chose the other 11. Ignore these lost people. Til He comes again.
 
Jubal   10/11/2007 5:38 AM
186 .  To Kevin, Patrick and etc.
Charles is right, you are all so childish if you can''t disprove a point someone has made, then you resort to name calling. You all just need to grow up, repent of your sins, and ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior. And let me make one thing very clear, calling Charles a Baptist minister is not an insult. Although he''s not one, our son is. And he is very faithful and dedicated to preaching the Word of God. And we feel, very fortunate to have a son, who is such a loyal and dedicated servant to the Lord.
 
Joyce   10/11/2007 5:18 AM
187 .  Kevin
I don''t mind a challenge but I have little respect for people that call Jesus a product of the Devil and Paul preaching the Gospel of Jesus working for the Devil . But again you and Patricks make believe friends resort to the same childish and debate methods . If you don''t have a following , one at this site all both of you . You resort to defaming people . Just how old are you ? you sound kinda immature in your debate practices . And , I know that you are an Antichrist spreading the Anti Gospel . Are you another Jim Jones?
 
Charles   10/11/2007 3:34 AM
188 .  I think "Charles" is a Roman catholic bishop or priest
or perhaps a Baptist minister. they really get uptight when they are challenged. its all a big money makjing racket as far as they are concerned they really care nothing for the spiritual or indeed temporal welfare of those under their thumb.
 
Kevin   10/11/2007 1:17 AM
189 .  What I am talking about ?
So much is said trying to pick every word of the Gospel to death rather that to receive it . Rather than open their hearts they find a point to debate . Bible Scholar if they can resist the Holy Spirit they can most certainly resist you . They might even seduce you if you are not careful . Paul gave instructions about people like that .
 
Charles   10/10/2007 11:31 PM
190 .  BEWARE of the LIFE ROBBING LIES of "Bible scholar"
Beware of the LIFE ROBBING LIES of "Bible scholar" who DELIBERATELY CORRUPTS the blessed word "SERVE" (Hebrew: plach) in Daniel 7:14 to instead read "worship (Hebrew: cgid)". NOT ONCE is the blessed Hebrew word for "SERVE (Hebrew: plach)" (Daniel 7:14) written or translated as "WORSHIP (Hebrew: cgid)" in the writings of the prophet Daniel except by christian CORRUPTERS of scripture.

In Daniel Chapter 3, ALONE, the blessed Hebrew word "SERVE (Hebrew: plach)" is written by the spirit of The Holy One FIVE TIMES and the blessed word "WORSHIP (Hebrew: cgid)" is written EIGHT TIMES. Example:

"...they SERVE (Hebrew: plach) not thy gods, nor WORSHIP (Hebrew: cgid) the golden image which thou hast set up"
(Daniel 3:12)

Christians wake - up to the "demons" (Revelation 18:2) in your midst and "Come out her, My people (The Jews)..." (Rev 18:4).
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/corruptionsofscripture.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/10/2007 1:15 PM
191 .  ..what are you talking about?
Paul said,

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

"..God''s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription:
"The Lord knows those who are His..
"Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." 2 Timothy 2:19

“For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world
to be holy and blameless in his sight…” Ephesians 1:4

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart I
appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

..When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139:13-16
 
Bible scholar   10/10/2007 6:38 AM
192 .  Charles, what are you talking about?
Adonai, Messiah, and Ruach HaKadosh, do the saving - no other. God chose and knew us before the world was d and before we were formed - King David & Jeremiah confirm G-d''s knows and chooses His before conception.

Jesus said,

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one can snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of My Father''s hand." John 10:29

"I AM the good shepherd I know my sheep and my sheep know Me— just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father (Daniel 7:9-10,13-14) —and I lay down my life for the sheep. (Isaiah 53) I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason My Father loves Me is that I lay down My life—only to take it up
 
Bible scholar...   10/10/2007 6:36 AM
193 .  Know the whole Bible..not piecemeal patched w/ speculation..
accusation and bias.

Like Geaney (aka: just a reader) you promote quicksitemaker''s historic ignorance and biblical corruption.

Read Geaney (aka: just a reader) posts and my replies. Is Geaney''s (aka: just a reader) methodology and character what you follow? Are they scriptural? Search the Bible wholly and you’ll know the answer. Search it daily as a delight. It’s the ONLY insurance against false teaching by Jew or Gentile.

Study what scripture unmitigatedly requires of a Christian correlate scriptures’ Christian standard with those persons, teachings, organizations, and institutions calling themselves “Christian”. Know why papalism persecuted Jews over 2000 years, why Rabbi’s organizationally Christ libeled all Christians for such, know why the Righteous Gentiles memorialized in Israel are primarily Bible believing Christians having had their Christ faith obscured by wording.

Don''t believe me or anyone else - believe the Bible.

G-d bless you through Yeshua Moschiach (
 
Bible scholar...   10/10/2007 5:44 AM
194 .  Marianne: Serve & Worship in the Bible
Biblically, "servants" of G-d "worship" G-d. "Servant" and "worshipper" are dually interrelated. Scripture is unequivocal that all G-d''s servants "worship" Him in spirit and TRUTH. Otherwise, one cannot be G-d''s "servant".

Tanakh specifically calls these "worshippers" and "servants" of G-d:

Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, Elijah, Hosea, Daniel, Jeremiah, Job, Ezekiel.. etc.

EVERY righteous name in scripture is so dually called. None can dispute these scriptural facts in language or terms, so such semantic “piece de resistance” merely proves biblical ignorance. (See: Anyone can be a biblical scholar post).

God bless you through Yeshua Moschiach (Jesus Christ).
 
Bible scholar...   10/10/2007 5:29 AM
195 .  Misquote takes life
For the mistake of a misquote a soul is lost in a meaningless debate . You serve whom you worship and worship whom you serve . It does not matter if you serve Satan or worship him , the results is the same . Your petty debate over that simple word makes your worthless disciples seem ...........well .....pitiful .
 
Charles   10/10/2007 4:53 AM
196 .  Marianne: I''m sorry, it''s the NIV.. also
Regarding my posts:

1. Did you miss what Daniel said in Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14 and Moses in Bereshit 12:26 and Bereshit 3:22?

2. Did you read any of the 6 links provided?

3. Did you cross reference them with Tanakh?

And,

4. Did you ignore Geaney (aka: just a readers'') posts and my replies?

5. Do you know the Talmud, in Sukkah 52, applies Zechariah 12:10, "They shall look unto me whom they have pierced," to Messiah ben Joseph? [1]

Given the preceding, is serve v. worship the best you and Geaney can muster?

How can you presume to know or present full truth if you do not study the basis of presentation? (cont.)
____________________________

[1] http://www.menorah.org/mjews.html
 
Bible scholar...   10/10/2007 3:55 AM
197 .  cont..
Perhaps the Jewish God is just a figment of their imagination. Some system whereby people are controlled, and very effectivly at that.

In that case you are right when you say "we have nothing to do with you Chrstians"

My God has c r e a t e d the entire universe, all things seen and unseen. There is no god besides Him. He loves ALL of His c r e a t i o n.

If the Jewish God IS the only God, then what are the Jews doing to bring the knowledge of Him to the rest of His C r e a t i o n? - Being the "light to the NATIONS"!

Who is a Jew? Do you know for sure? Or are you trying to rec r e ate a romantic notion of something that was? What about Ruth? Was she a Jew? And if so what made her a Jew? What is the advantage of being a Jew?
 
Sarah   10/10/2007 2:32 AM
198 .  Who is a Jew
Jonah is read on Yom Kipppur. - no coincidence!
Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and nights, speaking of the death that would be resurected,/ turned around.

But he was in the belly of the fish because he was sleeping on a boat going to a place in the opposite direction of the thing God required him to do.

And when he did what God required him to do, he was miffed, peeved, sulked, jealous that God should pay them any attention.

And thats how it is still to this day. The Jews want to hold on to the Almighty and His word as if they are the only ones important to God.

Who are the Jews today? The ones that are preserving the Torah. They are the ones whos eyes will be opened to see Yeshua Moshiach when He comes.

The rest of Israel are AS those who have already seen their Moshiach Yeshua,.. ... supposedly NOT JEWISH and have no right of return.

 
Sarah   10/10/2007 2:07 AM
199 .  The word "worshipped him" is not in Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14.
I just checked for myself. The KJV quoted by Bible scholar does not have the word "worshipped him" in Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14 as Bible scholar incorrectly says.

Im sorry Bible scholar but you have been rightly shown to be a liar by Patrick Geaney in his comment below [It is not written "worship him" but "serve him" in Daniel 7:14]. The word "worshipped" is also not in Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14. I also read the web site document "Christian corruptions of scripture" referred to by Patrick Geaney http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/corruptionsofscripture.html
It is surely a shocking revelation of christian deceptions.

 
Marianne   10/10/2007 1:06 AM
200 .  Chaff
There will be those that want to be Christians but can''t repent and those that want to be Jews and are not . When the harvest comes the wheat will be thrashed and the chaff will separate from the wheat and blow away ,and so shall those who are the chaff . Gentile people that convert to Judaism protest the most against Christianity to convince themselves that they are truly Jews . The part I do not understand is that the Jewish people of renown could never fully serve God, what makes them think that a counterfeit Jew could do any better ? Look how God has punished the real Jews over all of time .
I love the Jews because they are God''s chosen people ,but I will not reject God''s blood sacrifice for me and that is exactly what some have done on this site . Those that are not of God''s remnant are fooling only themselves . When the Lord Jesus comes it will be too late . This is not a game or a debate . So sad !
 
Charles   10/9/2007 11:37 PM
201 .  " d beings", besides Christ''s advent, that''s what I was
trying to post.

Sheesh.

G-d bless.
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 10:49 PM
202 .  This is a Messianic-Christian site..
please stick around and you will see the truths of Christ & scripture.

G-d bless.

:)
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 10:45 PM
203 .  you will see and see but won''t learn.
after reading a few comments i can see that there is still a lot of division between who''s a jew who''s a christian, but you still don''t get it.you will see and you will see but you still won''t learn.in the beginning there was no religion just children of god. god is bringing back his children israel look around and see. god doesn''t have a religion he has children that believe strongly in him.
 
michael   10/9/2007 10:28 PM
204 .  Computer glitch
That''s nowhere in Tanakh does Adonai EVER refer to D beings as on par with Him. It''s quite the opposite.
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 9:48 PM
205 .  Geaney (aka: just a reader) It''''s Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14
Oop. sorry, typing too fast.

That''''s: No where in Tanakh or NT does Adonai EVER refer to * d* beings as on par with Him it''s quite the opposite.

G-d deliver you with Jesus Christ.
 
Bible scholar   10/9/2007 9:44 PM
206 .  Geaney (aka: just a reader) It''s Daniel 7:9-10, 13-
That''s: No where in Tanakh or NT does Adonai EVER refer to * d* beings as on par with Him it''''s quite the opposite.

 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 9:39 PM
207 .  Geaney (aka: just a reader) It''''''''s Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14
_____________________________

[1] Cross reference with ALL Tanakh.

http://bibleprobe.com/300great.htm (360 fulfilled by Jesus Christ)
http://www.100prophecies.org/
http://need-messiah.blogspot.com/
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/messianicprophecies.html
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml

[2] See "That''s my King" for a tiny glimpse of just how UNPRECEDENTED Jesus Christ is. He has no earthly measure.

http://www.sermonspice.com/videos/114/thats-my-king/

Glory, honor & praise to Messiah Jesus (Yeshua Moschiach).
 
Bible scholar   10/9/2007 9:36 PM
208 .  Geaney (aka: just a reader) It''''s Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14
2. Jesus Christ is the only Son of David who ever did, or could, fulfill Daniel''s vision.

EXAMPLE: Christ''s kingdom is Jewish Messianics & Christian Gentiles. The Gentiles comprise peoples IN EVERY nation, race, and language who worship/serve** Jesus.

Jesus Christ''s (Yeshua Moschiach) kingdom has NEVER been destroyed and never will be as Daniel confirms. [2]

3. Jesus Christ is the only Son of David who ever fulfilled the *HUNDREDS* of Messianic prophesies in the Jewish Bible/Tanakh.

No Jew, past, present, or future, will ever align so PERFECTLY with Tanakh as Jesus Christ has - much less walk on water.

"Jesus Christ, the greatest Jew ever." Albert Einstein (cont.)
_________________________
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 9:34 PM
209 .  Geaney (aka: just a reader) It''s Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14
Jesus *already* fulfills Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14.

"..there before me was one like a Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority,
glory and sovereign power *all peoples*, *nations* and men of *every language* *worshiped* him. His dominion is an *everlasting* dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Daniel 7:9-10, 14 (KJV)**

1. Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14 proves a 2nd among God: 1. Ancient of Days 2. Messiah, the 3rd. Ruach HaKadosh, permeates Tanakh (and NT).

"And G-d said: ''Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.." (Bereshit 12:26).

"And HaShem G-d said: ''Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil.. (Bereshit 3:22)

No where in Tanakh or NT does Adonai EVER refer to d beings as on par with Him it''s quite the opposite. (cont.)
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 9:32 PM
210 .  It is not written "worship him" but "serve him" Daniel 7:14
Aharon Micahel ben Chunna HaLevi correctly defines "Christians as those who worship the man born of woman called Jesus". Christian leaders such as the anonymous "Bible scholar" dare to CORRUPT the plain words of Daniel 7:14 by changing the words "serve him" to instead read "worship him" in order to justify christian "worship" of their idol Jesus. "Bible scholar''s" KJV and his referenced http://www.breslov.com/bible/ have "serve him" (Daniel 7:14) plainly written - NOT "worship him" as written by the "blind" (Matthew 15:14) "Bible scholar".

Christians wake - up to the "demons" (Revelation 18:2) in your midst and "Come out her, My people (The Jews)..." (Rev 18:4).

Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa`Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/corruptionsofscripture.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/9/2007 4:35 PM
211 .  Anyone can be a Bible scholar
Search for any word in the Bible (e.g. love, truth, Jesus..etc.) here:

http://www.biblegateway.com/

KJV translation is faithful to the Tanakh. Any questions, check the Tanakh:

http://www.breslov.com/bible/

For more clarification, search the Complete Jewish Bible (Tanakh & NT)

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=Genesis+1§ion=0&version=cjb&new=1&oq=&NavBook=mt&NavGo=28&NavCurrentChapter=28

Not sure of the exact scripture? Google what you do have (e.g. For God so loved the world...) and many links naming the verse will appear and you can check them the Bible! Viola! Bible scholar! :)

Obey scripture through Christ and you will know truth.

God bless all through Yeshua.
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 2:23 PM
212 .  Charles: Who is a Jew
Spiritually:

A: Galatians 3 - (Jews & Gentiles unified by Christ)

A: Romans 11 - (Gentiles ingrafted by Christ)

A: John 4:23-26 - (True Jews & Christians worship God in Spirit & Truth)

Physically:

Tanakh & NT *always* use *Patrilineal* descent to establish Jewish genealogical identity. Matrilineal mention of same is *less* than minor.

Genesis 5 Genesis 10, Genesis 11:10-28 1 Chronicles 1 Ruth 4:17-22 Matthew 1

"G-d of my/our Fathers” is repeatedly used in Tanakh-NT to denote the solemnity and geneological legitimacy of a Jew.
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 2:08 PM
213 .  The Bible is the whole truth
..there before me was one like a Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power *all peoples*, *nations* and men of *every language* *worshiped* him. His dominion is an *everlasting* dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Daniel 7:9-10, 14
 
Bible scholar...   10/9/2007 12:18 PM
214 .  Aharon Who is a Jew Who is not
As a Christian I do not try to stick my nose in Gods business, but there are certain wanna be Jewish people that attack Jesus and the whole New Testament. My question is can these Gentile people lay claim to the Jewish heritage as the new replacement Jew or do they have to have Jewish blood in them to qualify ? Also do you believe that the Lord will recognize them as Jews and the chosen people .
 
Charles   10/9/2007 2:58 AM
215 .  Old Arguments Renewed
Such myopia from so many! Being Jewish is defined by the Torah and its authentic tradition, not by popular vote or pop culture or Christian misrepresentation. The Torah is called eternal (for those too slow to understand that means when Jesus showed up it still could not be changed) in the text many times.

If the Torah is not holy and eternal, then the basis for Christianity itself crumbles. Unless you cede Jewish tradition to authentic practicing Jews and call Christians as those who worship the man born of woman called Jesus, there is no end to this discussion. You are one or the other as they are mutually exclusive. Let me repeat: one can be an ethnic, biological Jew who practices either Judaism or Christianity. The choice determines who practices Judaism or Christianity, which bears on authenticity as to the law of return - which is for Jews who do not foresake their heritage. Christianity is NOT a Jewish heritage, it is a Gentile one based on 19 centuries of history.
 
Aharon Micahel ben Chunna HaLevi   10/9/2007 2:17 AM
216 .  Who is a Jew
Jonah is read on Yom Kipppur. - no coincidence!
Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and nights, speaking of the death that would be resurected,/ turned around.

But he was in the belly of the fish because he was sleeping on a boat going to a place in the opposite direction of the thing God required him to do.

And when he did what God required him to do, he was miffed, peeved, sulked, jealous that God should pay them any attention.

And thats how it is still to this day. The Jews want to hold on to the Almighty and His word as if they are the only ones important to God.

Who are the Jews today? The ones that are preserving the Torah. They are the ones whos eyes will be opened to see Yeshua Moshiach when He comes.

The rest of Israel are AS those who have already seen their Moshiach Yeshua,.. ... supposedly NOT JEWISH and have no right of return.

 
Sarah   10/8/2007 2:41 PM
217 .  Luke
It is hard I know. Times have changed somewhat. We all have rights, and we become so easily offended. I am sure Mrs W is not offended by your comment though. I know I am not.

If you see one about to step infront of a bus, I think the reaction would be to grab the person to save him. -
How is it that you can think for God. Is He a vending machine?

You don''t like the sun rising in the East?... Change it!
 
Sarah   10/8/2007 2:35 PM
218 .  Mrs W - christian hypocricies
Am I the only one who is disgusted at your expressing your prejudices against whoever in the form of a prayer "O lord visit them" etc in your comment "New Jerusalem". Surely you do not expect such a prayer to be even heard not to mind being answered even if some of the christians in this page say an amen to it.?

As I am writing I hope you will not be offended if I in love point out that you, perhaps unknowingly, misquoted the very first word "My" in your rendering of Psalm 110:1.

 
Luke   10/8/2007 1:41 PM
219 .  The New Jerusalem
Well Psalm 2 says the Lord rules with a rod of iron (perfect justice) and Psalm 110 My Lord says to my Lord, sit at my righthand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.
Oh Lord Visit them in dreams and forgive them for their legalism and their ignorance, oh Lord they are stiff- necked move on their hard hearts by the power of your spirit Amen..and these same deceived law makers would worship in a mosque for they lack discernment..........
 
Mrs W   10/7/2007 10:58 PM
220 .  The New Jerusalem
Well Psalm 2 says the Lord rules with a rod of iron (perfect justice) and Psalm 110 My Lord says to my Lord, sit at my righthand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.
Oh Lord Visit them in dreams and forgive them for their legalism and their ignorance, oh Lord they are stiff- necked move on their hard hearts by the power of your spirit Amen..and these same deceived law makers would worship in a mosque for they lack discernment..........
 
Mrs W   10/7/2007 10:58 PM
221 .  Mike Decker
I appreciate your courteous reply. I will contact the Jerusalem Institute of Justice tomorrow
 
Simon   10/7/2007 7:37 PM
222 .  Simon
Dear Simon,

Please enter the Jerusalem Institute of Justice''s website at www.jij.org.il, post your question and our legal team will be happy to answer your inquiries.

Blessings,

Mike

 
Mike Decker   10/7/2007 5:41 PM
223 .  Simon
Dear Simon,

Please enter the Jerusalem Institute of Justice''s website at www.jij.org.il, post your question and our legal team will be happy to answer your inquiries.

Blessings,

Mike

 
Mike Decker   10/7/2007 5:41 PM
224 .  Simon
Dear Simon,

Please enter the Jerusalem Institute of Justice''s website at www.jij.org.il, post your question and our legal team will be happy to answer your inquiries.

Blessings,

Mike

 
Mike Decker   10/7/2007 5:41 PM
225 .  Jew Ultimately Defined
Who is a Jew ? Can the Sanhedrin define who are Jews ? Can the Knesset define who is a Jew ? Will God the Father recognize these authorities as having equal powers as Him to dictate who are His chosen people . God blinded the Jew in part to Jesus . Thousands of Jews receive Jesus . But God said He would bring His remnant (1/3 rd of Israel ) through . That means that 2/3rds will not make it . Those who have left Jesus and denied Him will not find themselves not under the same umbrella of forgiveness as people who meets Gods definition of a Jew . There is only one authority that can define who is a real Jew . Don''t pass up your only chance for salvation and try to PASS for a Jew, you may fool a lot of people ,but you won''t fool God the Father.
 
Charles   10/7/2007 4:05 PM
226 .  Mike Decker: Who is a Jew?
Your article is very interesting. I read in the official Jewish web site that "A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism" I was wondering if this is still the current legal definition of a Jew?
Also am I right in concluding that "any person whose mother was a Jew" remains a Jew no matter what they believe subsequent to their birth?. If not why not? Thanks for your time
 
Simon   10/7/2007 1:47 PM
227 .  cont.
care of our own hearts before our God as we walk on?
Who manage to live like this?
Is it that we all are to close our eyes, bowing our heads looking down to the ground to realize and to confess: Yes we are all earthly, but still we lift our face to look up to Him, the complete perfect and holy One, Our Lord, Savior and Shepherd, who know what we all needs and are to do under his protection and guidance.
Isn''t it good? And isn''t HE perfect? And isn''t it marvellous HE found us in His mercy to be His beloved ones in this unperfect world?
And if not - what and where would we then have been? Is it too much to bear a little of other burderns for a little time? I guess not, even if we have to feel a litle frustrated for a short period... as lons as we are all humans...on our way and as long it is day.
 
MrK   10/7/2007 10:02 AM
228 .  And if 2
some persons who approach us are without feelings towards others
and are only focused at what is gaining themselves
and if they all the time are searching for unbalanced and weak others
who fit into their own unbalanced behaviour and way of thinking and feeling to find someone to hunt into their controll area around them
and they have so strong motivation for what they do that they well can trample on other''s feeilings and can easily walk over dead bodied to get what they go for
who is then proved to speak the truth about men''s hearts?
And who are we if we cannot love our enemies as well as our friends and family members?
And why did Yeshua say what He said about deceit and about men''s hearts?
And if we try to live according to this standard of His teaching, how can we deal with all the challanges me may meet in persons approaching us during our walk where He leads us by walking in his paths, together with the task to be watching and trying to take care of our own hearts before our
 
MrK   10/7/2007 9:54 AM
229 .  And if
Patrick is still eager to be active on this site
and if he consequently still goes on writing and posting
only to get have focus on himself and his peb page
with this screwed teaching,
and if he is not interesting at all inn people and their quetions and to communicae with others in a normal way at the same level as others do here at israeltoday
and if he is proved to be a deceiver and
if he is continually unwilling to listen to his fellow human beiing neighbor writers and thinkers here
who are then the responsibel ones
for the fact that he still can go on trying to deceive as many as possibel
by going on and on to beiing active at this site for years may be
who and what are we -who can see this before our own eyes- to do to try to give our share in trying to protect our fellow readers, and why, how and how long must this go on and go on? Can anyone answer, please? May be Patrick himself can answer, do you think? Or may be he cannot at all answer, and some others can?
 
MrK   10/7/2007 9:30 AM
230 .  God gave (Jesus) the name that that is above every name.
"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philipians 2:9-11
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/7/2007 12:00 AM
231 .  Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ..
..as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work." 2 John 1:7-11

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 2 Corinthians 6:14-15
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/6/2007 11:57 PM
232 .  Charles is right
Geaney: "..we do not communicate with christian clergy, teachers, pastors, professors, evangelists, elders etc.. confirm.. that you are not one of these."

"Whoever believes in (Jesus Christ) is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God''s one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. John 3:18-20
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 11:22 PM
233 .  cont.
are the editor(s) and staff writers'' opinions, if we are not blind or want to be blinded.
And I can not understand this last comment, what you are really saying to me by this, Patrick? Can you please explain what you are saying here? This what you wrote is dull talk from you to me, I think...
 
MrK   10/6/2007 9:43 PM
234 .  As you see..
you see, you raise a lot of bad feelings towards you from the way you approach others, Patrick Geaney.
I suppose you have experienced a lot of this already. Charles my fellow believer who I respect advices me not to go to your email, and I will accept his advice not to do that, an advice from care, love and concern. Who said no communication Mister? I said if you are stopping writing at this site it''s your own choise. I prefer not to go to the invited hidden agenda site, but I am still willing to communicate openly at this site. And my purpose is clear: to try to understand more who you are and why you believe what you do, and it is not to be approached by any mean of some teaching of yours, or to give you as aforeigner too much information of myself without knowing why you want to have this, because this is a site where people can join in communicating with each others as free persons and where we all are guests at an equal level, and where we should know who are the editor(s) and staff writers'' opinion
 
MrK   10/6/2007 9:39 PM
235 .  Mr K No communication then ok by me Thank you for reply here

 
Patrick Geaney   10/6/2007 8:50 PM
236 .  Evil doers
When we communicate with evil we come to be less offended by it as time goes on . One who hopes to convert evil only finds himself converted . Paul gave instructions on such things .
I myself never viewed his site ( I''m a flake .com ) , . there are some things you just don''t need to see .
 
Charles   10/6/2007 8:42 PM
237 .  cont.
want to give you my name, in this connection I want to stay anonymous, and why can I not do that, you think?
Anyhow, If you are still wanting to post your comments here at this site, I think that I also prefer to talk to you at this site as well. You see, you raises a lot of bad feelings towards you from the way you approach others, and this was what provoked me to start to write here, together with Rebekah''s writing as well. Did you read her comments? If so, did you like what she wrote?
By the way my profession is in health care, but I am not a doctor, if this is interesting, but I know of one who also is a J. Vitness himself...
 
MrK   10/6/2007 6:38 PM
238 .  If you respect me to be a free person
like you, who believe in Yeshua HaMaschiach / Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of HaEl you should not state any terms either to me like you do. But I have to say I feel honored by your offer. But I am a little afraid that our expectations differs much, as I feel that the teachings you give raises a lot of reluctance inside my spirit, and I am afraid that you come along with more and more new terms stated to become a part of your inner club. If you in this way have one agenda outwards and another inwards it is obvious to me that this is a so-called Christian sect you are running. and I once in my youth studied Jehovas Vitnesses from my point of view as anew believer in Yeshua, and I know they also did not accept to have such spiritual fellowship with people who were not one of them. Do you know their teachings may be? Are you rooted from them may be?
I do not say no, but I am also willing to offer you my emailadress, but I am not sure if I want to give you my name, in this connection I want to stay an
 
MrK   10/6/2007 6:32 PM
239 .  Mr K My reply to you re my email address
Mr K It is with great reluctance that I am replying to you particulaly as you do not publish your full name. I do my very best to reply to all GENUINE queries which for the most part come through the disciples of Yeshuwa'' web site and from humble christians and Jews who are responding to the urgings of the spirit of The Holy One in their hearts to the evils of christianity. At your request I invite you to email me at patricksgeaney@hotmail.com
when hopefully, in the will of Yehvah Elohiym, I will reply, in confidence, to your queries.

As we do not communicate with christian clergy, teachers, pastors, professors, evangelists, elders etc I trust you will confirm in your first email that you are not one of these. Thank you.
 
Patrick Geaney   10/6/2007 5:57 PM
240 .  cont.
loving care, but also still beleived to for the future also maintain steadfast planted in my belief as a grown-up person in Yeshua HaMaschiach, raised in an Europian country, studied the Schripture for almost forthy years now, and with a love for Israel for more than twenty years.
Why and how long have you believed in what you beleive in, Patrick? And why are you calling someone mature persons blind ones?
 
MrK   10/6/2007 3:57 PM
241 .  to Patrick
I see that you have your own translation from some (?) of the books in the New Testament, here you refer to Matthew.
I have to say I have not studied your matrerial too much, but for me it is strange that you believe in some Jewish Moschiach written Yeshuwa. My impression so far is that you do not believe in the Holy Schripture of New Testament. Are you reading most in the Tanach or from the New Testament, and is there much from the New Testament you believe as true words from God like Revelation? Or is tit only when it is read in your own translation, like the one you refer to here at your last two comments?
If you write only under this article or tell where you go to write, may be I can manage to follow to read for a while just to try to understand more why you believe as you do, May be I can try a little at least. Or has many beleivers in Yeshua /Jesus tried to follow you before in this way? if so, what happened to them? I write like this still with my respect, and loving care, but also still beleive
 
MrK   10/6/2007 3:54 PM
242 .  "..if a blind man leads another who is blind..."(Mat 15:14)
Scripture reference below corrected with my apology.
"Yeshuwa'''' answered them: "Every plant which my Father Who is in heaven did not plant will be destroyed".
"Leave them alone because the blind are leading the blind, and if a blind man leads another who is blind, both will fall into a pit".
(Matthew 15:13,14))

"Repent and believe the good news of the kingdom of heaven"

(Matthew 4:17. 24:14. Mark 1:15)

Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa`Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://www.quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/gospelofmatthew2.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/6/2007 3:09 PM
243 .  "..if a blind man leads another who is blind..." (Mat 14:11)
"Yeshuwa'' answered them: "Every plant which my Father Who is in heaven did not plant will be destroyed".
"Leave them alone because the blind are leading the blind, and if a blind man leads another who is blind, both will fall into a pit".
(Matthew 14:11)

"Repent and believe the good news of the kingdom of heaven"

(Matthew 4:17. 24:14. Mark 1:15)

Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa`Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://www.quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/gospelofmatthew2.html
 
Patrick Geaney   10/6/2007 2:57 PM
244 .  To: Just a Reader - The Prayer of Repentance
Dear Father: I believe that Yeshua Moschiach (Jesus Christ) is Your only begotten Son, that He came to earth in the flesh and died on the cross to remove all of my sins and the sins of this world. I believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day to give eternal life to all who believe on His name.

Lord Yeshua: I confess to You all of the wrong and sinful things that I have ever done in my life and I repent. I ask that You please forgive me and wash away all of my sins by the blood You shed for me on the cross. I accept You as my Lord and Savior. I ask You to come into my life as my Lord and Savior for all eternity.

Father, Jesus - I believe and accept that I am saved and born again into everlasting life according to Your promise and word. Amen.

Thank You Father. Thank You Yeshua.
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 12:22 PM
245 .  MrK - How beautiful & magnificent
"I can feel the Spirit fills me with a love filled feeling towards all persons like Mr.Geaney..Don''''t you think this is a work of HaRuach HaKodesh.."

How incredibly beautiful MrK. Love for others whether believer or not, is definitely of God.

Mr. Decker''s articles are great. They really illuminate. Yes, God gives us choice on what to believe. He gave choice beginning with Adam & Eve.

God bless.
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 12:08 PM
246 .  cont.
But it WAS Patrick and Rebekah who provoked me to share from my point of view at this site (as you may see under politics, Chr.-Jewish relations, if you like to.) Thanks again, also to you.
 
MrK   10/6/2007 11:59 AM
247 .  MrK
..I myself do not like to watch the video and the presentation about hell..

Me neither, but people need to know what exactly Jesus "saves" us from. Jesus and the Apostles preached the truth of hell so people would not go where the enemy is going.

"How can we distinguish between the good and the evil, sometimes this is really difficult to see, I think."

True. We can distinguish between good and evil by the Bible, by studying and practicing it daily through Christ, discernment is given through the Holy Spirit.

The replies to Geany were not "intellectual" replies, they were primarily scripture because ONLY God''s word through Christ can cut the path through darkness. NOTHING is more powerful than the word of God.
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 11:59 AM
248 .  This gives meaning and great joy to read
Scholar, and I can feel the Spirit fills me with a love filled feeling towards all persons like Mr.Geaney and Rebekah, in reading your last comment. Don''t you think this is a work of HaRoach HaKodesh, sent by our Saviour and filled Stehpen with joy and love when Shaul watched the clothes of Stephen''s murderers and persecuters, before Shaul was completed in his belief in the Holy One of Israel arosen and replaced in Heaven. Isn''t it good that Yeshua was able to stop Shaul on his way to Damascus in the early history of the Messianic Jews, and that Jews and Goim/ Gentiles are one in Yeshua HaMaschiach, even today.
I also find it interesting to take a look at Mike Deckers jij.org.il site. Here I can smell the good odeur of a loving and caring person for all who experiences some kind of intolerance because of their spiritually point of view, in HaEretz, but that seems to be something else, I suppose...
But it WAS Patrick and Rebekah who provoked me to share from my point of view at this site (as you may s
 
MrK   10/6/2007 11:58 AM
249 .  Thanks MrK - God bless.
Gee.. I guess the main thing is believers are so incredibly precious to Yeshua.

Geaney, just a reader, Sutton is precious too. Scripture shows we were all once against Christ, willing our own ways and opinions over His.

In the majority of cases ignorance and deceit has been the problem. Therefore, it''s important to love with truth. Please pray forgiveness and Christ''s love for Geaney, etc. remember Apostle Paul''s persecutions and Peter''s denial of Christ were forgiven.

All the posts really indicate is yet another, like you and I, desperately in need of the love and truth of Christ - someone who needs to know God''s word wholly, and not piecemeal someone who needs to healing from the hurts and deceits accumulated over a lifetime.
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 11:38 AM
250 .  Is this all, Scholar?
Is thiese all articles under which he has posted his screwed teachings, you think? Why does he do this, is he trying to reach someone to catch them under his dominion? Is he trying to reach Christians or Jews? Why the Jewish-like names put on, Is it to just find something special, trying to catch some unbalanced personality persons, may be. The sad thing is that tere are some of them who can be open to everything, also this, but they probably soon will find something else to open themselves to, also.. People are not always easy to approach, some persons keeps the good ones busy a lot, and unbalanced persons also are drawn to the good groups, trying to be the centrum VIP as long as they manage to or have seen some little littlefinger to try to catch around like leeches.
 
MrK   10/6/2007 11:12 AM
251 .  Yeshua Moschiach in Tanakh (See: JPS)
The ancient rabbinical lie is that Messiah would not be God is demolished per the Prophets of Tanakh.

"..O Bethlehem...out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been From of Old (Ancient),
From Everlasting (Eternal)." Micah 5:2

"..a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)" Isaiah 7:14

"...unto us a Child is born (Israel), unto us a Son is given...

His name will be
called Mighty God,
Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6

"..I have engraved you (Israel) on the palms of my hands
your walls are ever before me."
Isaiah 43:16

"... after threescore and two weeks (3 1/2 years - Christ''s formal ministry
period) shall Messiah be cut off,
but not for Himself... (for the sins of mankind) He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
…in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease..." Daniel 9:26-27

The 2nd Temple at Jerusalem was
 
Truth   10/6/2007 11:11 AM
252 .  I like this, you are clear, Scholar
And I think we are to watch over the articles at this site to confront this Patrick who only show us to his web page which is so obvious false teachings. So you see he is no Jewish rooted person at all, do you think? only a "Christian" sectarian teacher on his own home studied school?
 
MrK   10/6/2007 10:20 AM
253 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Sutton) - 4
Repent to HaShem through Jesus Christ - The Kingdom of Heaven is near – even at the door.

You have misrepresented - repent. Your posts near blasphemy against the Ruach HaKodesh. It is the only unforgivable sin.

“Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Matthew 12:32

Don’t go to hell because you believed lies. Lies are the number one method of the progenitor of lies.

Do not despair there is forgiveness in Christ.

The Lord''s Grace to Paul: “I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 1:12-14
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 9:22 AM
254 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Sutton) - 3
In your posts you’ve alternately presented yourself as:

1. Anti-Christ
2. A Christian
3. Lamblast Christians

See how twisty your deceit is? Do you really think people on this board do not know who the father of lies is?

Jesus said... "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came from God.. I have not come on My own but He sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father''s desire (soul damnation to hell for people). He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

..He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." John 8:42-45, 47
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 8:28 AM
255 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Sutton) - 2
4. just a reader (aka: Geaney/Hubert):

“..such writings will only make people like me be ashamed of being a Christian” - 10/4/2007 10:06 AM

5. just a reader (aka: Geaney/Hubert):

“..i do not want to know your jesus christ whom you say is your lord and savior..”
10/5/2007 3:52 PM

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=182&view=item&idx=1550
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 8:26 AM
256 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Sutton) - 1
You post, “..it is enough for me to know The Almighty One of Israel and His beloved son Yeshuwa mashiyach..”

Superficially, your statement “appears reasonable”. However, you are again shown false because you are not referring to “The God Israel” or “Yeshua Moschiach”. HaShem’s word says:

“Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.” 1 John 2:22

These are your posts:

1. Geaney (aka: just a reader): "Children of Yisrael" ..be assured that Yeshuwa` Mashiyach is not the Christian "christ jesus"..

2. "Children of Yisrael" ..be assured that your King Yeshuwa` Mashiyach NEVER blasphemed by claiming to be "God manifest in the flesh".

3. "Children of Yisrael" ..be assured that your King Yeshuwa` Mashiyach NEVER worshipped any Christian ''''trinity''''.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=962
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=135&view=it
 
Bible, history, behavior scholar   10/6/2007 8:23 AM
257 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Hubert Sutton)
"...and pray to you toward the land you gave their fathers, toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you forgive all the offenses they have committed against you, and cause their conquerors to show them mercy for they are your people and your inheritance, whom you brought out of Egypt, out of that iron-smelting furnace. (King Solomon: 1 Kings 8:46-60)
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/6/2007 7:29 AM
258 .  Oop..I posted wrong: The subject is just a reader and..
the poster is: Bible, history & behavior scholar - re: Solomon''s prayer.

:)
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/6/2007 7:27 AM
259 .  Bible, history & behavior scholar
You post, “..i do not want to know jesus christ whose followers are the most unrepentant, hate filled, bitter, murderous, deceitful, patronising, addicted, and cancer afflicted persons in all the world.”

You called yourself Christian yet you lied and remain unrepentant refusing to acknowledge your deceits on this board. You commit the very acts you despise and accuse Christians of. Does scripture say God accepts liars?

"When they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to his own land, far away or near and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their conquerors and say, ''We have sinned, we have done wrong, we have acted wickedly'' and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their enemies who took them captive, and pray to you toward the land you gave their fathers, toward the city you hav
 
just a reader (aka: Geaney, Hubert Sutton)   10/6/2007 7:25 AM
260 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Hubert Sutton)
You post, “i do not want to know your jesus christ” whose followers use the name jesus christ to blaspheme and curse not only their fellow christians but their enemies and those who do not agree with them.”

Fellow Christians? You mean those who called themselves Christians while plundering, robbing, lying, pogroming, murdering and persecuting Jews and others throughout history?

God has already judged them. Who are you to judge?

“But the… murderers…the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8

You’ve already shown yourself a huge liar numerous times on this board. Does not God’s word apply to you?

"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. ..For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Luke 6:36-38
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/6/2007 7:09 AM
261 .  just a reader (aka: Geaney, Hubert Sutton)
You post, “I do not want your jesus christ as my lord and saviour.. in whose name the most dreadful atrocities have been and continue to be commtted.. ”

Do you not want to know Jews? In their name horrific blood libels were attributed by false accusers, Christ is likewise libeled throughout history. Thus, it is the accuser (deceit) who you should reject and not the innocents falsely accused. Unfortunately, you do not know the difference between innocents accused and the accuser.

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. Revelation 12:10
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/6/2007 7:06 AM
262 .  You’ve gotta be kidding: just a reader (aka: Geaney,Sutton)
These posts are you:

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=962

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=135&view=item&idx=1489

Poster Jubal A. posted right of you.

"Beware Israel! Beware of the blasphemy of the cult known as "disciples of yeshuwa"! Their leader seeks to bring as many to destruction with him along with his father the devil. Just study his website for such blasphemy as: adding to the Word of God, saying what God is thinking, trying to be like the Most High just like his father satan by knowing what was in Thomas'''' heart in John 20:28, attributing works of the Spirit to the devil, thereby blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, among hundreds of other heresies. Rebuke him and his cult, for they are the sons of Belial. Til He comes again, Amen.

Jubal A. Early, 9/19/2007 1:15 PM
 
Faith   10/6/2007 4:25 AM
263 .  Little people
The argument from Just a Reader alias Patrick or Hubert and other demons . Your cult has tired itself out on this site . You argue , instead of discussing the subject and use cheap shots like little insecure girly boys . Your skirt is showing boys . What kind of a pitiful , petty kind of a person would make the remark to Joyce implying that she has cancer because she is being punished by God . What kind of pathetic fool would resort to that kind of a remark . The answer is most likely some one who marched in the parade of shame and abnormality and proud of it . Well you just came out on this site also . You may have just called down that very thing on your self . Pitiful little people .......
 
Charles   10/5/2007 11:24 PM
264 .  To just a reader cont.
But if it makes you feel better about yourself, to use that, to try to be hurtful to me, then you go right ahead. But just remember this, cancer knows no boundaries.
 
Joyce   10/5/2007 7:35 PM
265 .  To just a reader
I''m truly sorry, you feel that way about Jesus. Because it is your soul, that is in the balance. And with the way you feel about Jesus, unless you repent of those ways, you have tipped the balance for your soul, to spend eternity in the lake of fire. And because, I do care about you and others, is why I will pray for your repentance and acceptance, for Jesus as your Lord and Savior. And you keep accusing Christians, for all the atrocities that''s happened in the world, but those accusations have no basis for truth. Because plain and simple, those are not the acts of a Christian. And neither are the hateful and bitter ways, that you and others of your beliefs, have shown towards Christians. And this is the second time now, that you or one of your members, have commented to me about Christians being afflicted with cancer. And because I had commented on another topic about having cancer. I find it a little difficult to believe, that this is just a coincidence. But if it makes you feel better about yourself, to
 
Joyce   10/5/2007 7:27 PM
266 .  My question is:
Do you accept the revelation as a Holy text from God?
If so. Can you accept to read chapter 16, 17 and 18 as a start, to share what we find important and relevant from these texts? Just as astart, I mean. do you take the challange?
 
MrK   10/5/2007 6:36 PM
267 .  To Patrick, Hubert or Just
Do you beleive that the Book of Revelation in The New Covenant of the Bible is interesting or acceptable to look at and read and also to share what we find is worthy to talk about, do you think? If so we can start to read from three chapters and may be widen the texts out into one chapter more one each side, as a start? If you find the word interesting, I mean. I am not so well learned, may be, but I am willing to tell what I think is important from the reading of the texts. Or do you not find the Revelation as pure texts from the Holy schripture? only a proposal if you like to, or do I have to look for you under other articles, or may be you can tell me where you want to go to be active. Anyway I hope you stay here (also).
And your response or question to Joyce, is Yeshuwa Maschiyach and not Yeshua HaMaschiach the Son of God, The Almighty one of Israel, you said. Is The Almighty One also The Holy One? if you can answer, please.
 
MrK   10/5/2007 6:28 PM
268 .  And it is interesting
that Just areader also is refferring to the same web site as Patrick Geaney does.
So may be Just a Reader is known to or a friend to Patrick, are you known or friends JAR and P? You see, I do not think you are the same person, I think Patrick is at my age and JAR is believed to be at Charles age, but I may be wrong, of course.... and Hubert Sutton or Hubert Sexton are they in the middle, or is this one splitted person alone and lonely riding his horse in the desert towards the sunset coloured sky before the dark night falls on? Can he turn and start to ride towards the morning star? This is of course MY hope.
 
MrK   10/5/2007 4:31 PM
269 .  cont.
may be he can go on communicating with us so we may understand to read and study his history as well, so we know who we are communicating with. But I have to say to you dear friend, I myself do not like to watch the video and the presentation about hell, and this is also why I do react so negatively to his message. How can we distinguish between the good and the evil, sometimes this is really difficult to see, I think. Hope to stay in contact with all written here under this article.
 
MrK   10/5/2007 4:06 PM
270 .  Is it so
that some persons write under more than one signature, you think, Bible, history & behavior scholar?
I started to write here as areaction to Patrick Geaney and Rebekah about four months ago.
Now it seem Rebekah has taken a break or stopped to write, and I hope she is still reading.
Patrick Geaney I just had one single dialogue with, but first he did not answer me, just flied to another article, and it took many months before I found him again on the site here. I do not beleive persons are serpents, but they may behave serpent-like for sure, this also in some way my dear Rebekah did, but I also got contact with her and we had an interesting dialogue before she stopped, may be because I showed her she found out that also The Rambam commanded Kabbalah.
What I can read here is that the signature hubert with two differnt family names is calling himself ex-Christian, but what I wander of is if Patrick Geaney is in a sect rooted from the Jewish or the Christian faith, may be he can go on communicating w
 
MrK   10/5/2007 4:04 PM
271 .  Joyce I do not want your jesus christ as my lord and saviour
i do not want to know your jesus christ whom you say is your lord and savior in whose name the most dreadful atrocities have been and continue to be commtted against the Jews, Japanese, Vietnamese, Iraquis, American Indians and all the other poor persons in the world. i do not want to know your jesus christ whose followers use the name jesus christ to blaspheme and curse not only their fellow christians but their enemies and those who do not agree with them. i do not want to know jesus christ whose followers are the most unrepentant, hate filled, bitter, murderous, deceitful, patronising, addicted, and cancer afflicted persons in all the world. it is enough for me to know The Almighty One of Israel and His beloved son Yeshuwa mashiyach both of whom christians like you despise and hate.
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom.html
 
just a reader   10/5/2007 3:52 PM
272 .  To just a reader
Why are you, deliberately misquoting the comments, about the bombing of Japan? No one said anything, about it being a good thing. I agree, with Bible, history & behavior scholar, that you are only trying to sabotage, the Christian faith in Jesus Christ, the Messiah. But, I believe, that most people are smarter, than what you give them credit for, and will not fall for your deceptive practices. Because I believe, they are able to see, right through your deceitful ways. And I pray, that you will repent of your deception, and will come to know Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
 
Joyce   10/5/2007 7:21 AM
273 .  just a reader - 3
Finally, you’ll never be “like me”. You’re to be like you because God breaks the mold after each individual is d. Proof? DNA. We are precious to Him – one of a kind. He doesn’t force Himself. He provides abundant grace, opportunity, and information for us to CHOOSE Him. He doesn’t mince words for popularity or acceptance. Keep holding to chaff and when wheat and chaff are separated, those clinging to chaff will be cast out with it. For the above reasons Christ rose so that no man, you or me, who believes in Him would go to hell in soul separation from Him our souls aren’t intended to be separated from God, our Father and Creator, unless we choose through lies, fear, disobedience, God rejecting and hate. Plain and simple – get Jesus, He is for you.

Hell in scripture: http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/023-Ebook-Chp-23-1.html
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/4/2007 9:17 PM
274 .  just a reader - 3
Finally, you’ll never be “like me”. You’re to be like you because God breaks the mold after each individual is d. Proof? DNA. We are precious to Him – one of a kind. He doesn’t force Himself. He provides abundant grace, opportunity, and information for us to CHOOSE Him. He doesn’t mince words for popularity or acceptance. Keep holding to chaff and when wheat and chaff are separated, those clinging to chaff will be cast out with it. For the above reasons Christ rose so that no man, you or me, who believes in Him would go to hell in soul separation from Him our souls aren’t intended to be separated from God, our Father and Creator, unless we choose through lies, fear, disobedience, God rejecting and hate. Plain and simple – get Jesus, He is for you.

Hell in scripture: http://www.salvation-is-of-the-jews.com/023-Ebook-Chp-23-1.html
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/4/2007 8:41 PM
275 .  just a reader - 2
Humanist… Utopia is not possible without Christ, scripture says it, history into today confirms it. Peddling humanist peace and goodness without Messiah is pushing historic and anti-biblical damnation - anyone presuming righteousness without obedience to scripture through Messiah is deceived. Humanist ideology of “unconditional love” is anti-scriptural. Throughout Genesis through Revelation, scripture shows God has conditions for acceptance. His condition is Jesus. Ironically, God’s command’s obeyed brings blessing and soul utopia until Messiah returns.

God’s word defines equity and righteousness - not personal opinion. Scripture shows man cannot know righteousness without God’s word. Your measure of righteousness is “poor people” (Japanese) suffering in WW2. But, scripture shows innumerable people will suffer eternally in hell. Likewise, Christ rejects those calling Him Lord for rejecting what He said to do: Tanakh/NT through Him.

“There is none righteous, not one.” Romans 3:10
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/4/2007 8:37 PM
276 .  just a reader - 1
You posted as Hubert that you are familiar with history. Yet, you state it hateful to post Einstein ended it (WW2). It is a truthful and historic quote.

In your pursuit to judge you conveniently forget 60 million perished, countless millions displaced, Pearl Harbor, Kamikazees, and Nanking to name a few, you exaggerated Japanese losses which were in the 100''s of thousands not millions. On both sides the majority were “poor persons” yet you focus on Japan to support your biased condemnation of Einstein and Christians.
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/4/2007 8:36 PM
277 .  i read your reply Bible and history scholar
it is hateful to write that Einstein ended it with the atom bomb. bombing poor persons is not all peace and love but hate. i hope i am not like you.
 
just a reader   10/4/2007 12:25 PM
278 .  . Tsk..tsk..tsk.. just a reader. You''re not a Christian.. 2
Try honestly praying to God and studying scripture. Pray for wisdom.

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not and it shall be given him." James 1:5

God never fails those who truly seek Him. You''ll be astonished at how God loves you and wills you be in right relationship with Him so *you* can be blessed.

"Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for He will freely pardon." Isaiah 55:7

God bless you through Jesus Christ who rose for you.
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/4/2007 11:59 AM
279 .  Tsk..tsk..tsk.. just a reader. You''re not a Christian.. 1
you''re a serpent.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=182&view=item&idx=1446

There''re your posts Hubert, Geaney, just a reader, or whatever you want to call yoursellf. Obviously, your intent is to sabatoge through serpentine deceit faith in Messiah, such is indeed anti-Christ. Yet, you''re too stupid and ill informed to do so. The word of God is not bound and certainly not obscured by an idiot like you.

Shame on you.
 
Bible, history & behavior scholar   10/4/2007 11:51 AM
280 .  Just a reader - who said it was good?
Is repeating historic facts hateful? Is truth upsetting?

Christians are Christians by Christ, not by any other. Christ "all peace and love" is true, even when he *scathingly* rebuked Pharisaic lies.

From Christ''s side it is love to tell the truth so the ignorant would not be mislead into believing lies. From the rebuked side, it was shaming and therefore "hateful" to be so truthfully scolded, rather than a gifted opportunity for repentence (reconciliation with God).

Be humbly honored to be Christian, their signature is love by truth.
 
Bible & history scholar   10/4/2007 11:21 AM
281 .  how can you people say that the bombing of Japan was good?
i can hardly believe my eyes what i am reading here. such writings will only make people like me be ashamed of being a christian
 
just a reader   10/4/2007 10:06 AM
282 .  To Hubert ?? Is it Sutton or Sexton?
The only comments, that I find sick, are of yours and others, spewing hate and condemnation towards Christians. Where does all this hate come from? It certainly doesn''t come from God. The devil is the author of such hatred and condemnation. And concerning Charles'' comment, about the Theory of Relativity and the Japanese. He did not lie, or try to, wiggle out of anything. He did not deny making the statement. So, who is really the deceptive one here?
 
Joyce   10/4/2007 6:34 AM
283 .  Hubert Sutton: Paul & Einstein - 2
So keep your erroneous beliefs. Your type twists history and scripture in falsehoods to suit personal condemnations when confronted with the appalling ignorance on which they stand, they stubbornly persist in clinging to lies for the sake of maintaining unmerited self-righteousness.

Save the condemnation for your ignorance, righteousness is against you. Revelation 22:7-21

Paul: "I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus (Messiah)." Acts 20:21
 
Bible & history scholar   10/4/2007 4:52 AM
284 .  Hubert Sutton: Paul & Einstein - 1
Hubert, you are ignorant of "history and scripture". I''ve studied both for over 30 years starting at 10 years old.

A. You confuse "Christianity" and Catholicism, not knowing scripture well enough to determine the difference. If a rat calls itself an eagle you''ll believe it for not knowing what an eagle is. That''s the level of ignorance your posts show.

B. You forget Japan and Germany were alliies in WW2 committing atrocities heretofore unseen in history. Over *60 million* (that''s Sixty Million people) had ALREADY perished with millions more displaced in their war of aggression for world domination while vowing more of the same towards their goal.

Einstein ended it.
 
Bible & history scholar   10/4/2007 4:49 AM
285 .  Hubert Sutton Or Sexton or what ever !
You protest way too much about something you could care less about ? You did not mention the very thing that really bothered you . The fact that you are a WANNABE Jew . Real Jews could care less what Christians think . You wannabe Jews are working for the Syrians and may not know it . When you drive Christians away from Israel you are hurting Israel . I suppose you should learn to spell the names of your alias. Your omitting of certain parts of my statement stands out in bold type to your disdain . Stick with your first name you had better luck with it.
 
Charles   10/4/2007 2:47 AM
286 .  Charles: Why do you not stand over your first sick comment?
You wrote, with the written approval of "Bible scholar" your typically christian disparaging and hate filled comment that the destruction of the Japanese peoples by the christian Einstein''s atom bomb was youir sick proof that "The Theory of Relativity" is not "flawed":

"As for whether the theory is flawed or not ask the Japanese"
comment:Charles 10/2/2007 11:23 PM
Like typically christian snakes in the grass you try to wiggle oiut of your sick comment by writing the lie in your latest comment that you were not referring to "the theory". You Charles may deceive your christian fellow travellers who are happy to bed down with you in Paul''s christian hell but not me and thousands of other ex christians who are fleeing his "christ" prison of hate and deceptions.

 
Hubert Sexton   10/4/2007 2:04 AM
287 .  Hubert Sutton Cont.
It would seem that some wannabe Jews are up to it again . Are you trying to replace the true Jews in Gods plan . It won''t happen....
As far as my comment on the Theory of relativity, the Japanese were only days from deploying their own bomb . We beat them by days we found out later .

 
Charles   10/3/2007 11:36 PM
288 .  Hubert Sutton
The Jews historically speaking ( written by them ) have been repeatedly judged harshly by God for failing to keep the Law . God was very long suffering , so it was pretty much the normal thing . Why would they be any different today ? The truth is that they probably did a better job of keeping the Law than anyone else could do , but to keep the whole Law satisfactorily to God would be impossible . Jesus was given to us as a sacrifice for sin where as the Gentile was not even taught the Law by the Jews . The Jews did not share God openly with all people as far as I know . Were we all to perish for the lack of the Word . Are we all not Gods people ? Didn''t God imply that we are all God''s people when He took Paul against all of mans logic , a Christian murder and set him with all ferver to spread the Gospel of Jesus the Christ the Son of God . The Jewish religious higharchy would have swept the works of Jesus under the rug and all Gentile people would have died the second death . It would seem tha
 
Charles   10/3/2007 11:27 PM
289 .  To SJ Baker Cont.
The same thing can be said for worshipping on Saturday . Because Saturday is a pagan holiday for Saturn''s day in honor of the Roman god Saturn. But I realize that the pagan holiday has nothing to do with your worshipping God on Saturday, anymore than it does for Christians worshipping God on Sunday. And the same thing goes for Christmas and Easter . All it takes is a little common sense to realize these things .
 
Joyce   10/3/2007 10:49 PM
290 .  To SJ Baker
Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word of God, is the whole Bible (OT and NT). Because one without the other is incomplete. And yes, Jesus is a Jew, so of course, He practiced the customs of the Jewish religion. And Jesus came to sacrifice His life for all our sins, and He came to fulfill the law. We are saved by grace, not by the law. And Matthew 22:37-40 says:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

"This is the first and great commandment."

"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

So, what part of the scripture don''t you understand? Or do you just pick and choose what you want to believe? And that old argument about Christians worshipping on Sunday and it being a pagan holiday. The same thing, can be said about worshipping on Saturday. Because Saturday is a pagan holiday, for Saturn''s day in
 
Joyce   10/3/2007 10:41 PM
291 .  Contentious fools, that twist the Tenach of Yeshua
What do you think? That Yeshua read the ''new testament''? He was HaTorah- the walking Word of G-d!
Who are these Christians, that deny the Tenach, whose prophecies Yeshua fulfilled and yet will return and fulfill even again . Those Christians -who deny the Shabat and worship on Constantines''s Sun-day.
And celebrate the Xmas of Saternalia and the Easter of Ishtar? rather than obey the perpetual feasts of Lev 23! ( As Yeshua did)
You erroneously claim to be ''''not under the law''''- What then are you under? The false assumption that ''Jesus came to start a new religion called Christianity?"

Yeshua ( what his mother called him) never converted.
He was and is and forever will be a Jew... Salvation is of the ?????
 
SJ Baker   10/3/2007 7:38 PM
292 .  Contentious fools, that twist the Tenach of Yeshua
What do you think? That Yeshua read the ''new testament''? He was HaTorah- the walking Word of G-d!
Who are these Christians, that deny the Tenach, whose prophecies Yeshua fulfilled and yet will return and fulfill even again . Those Christians -who deny the Shabat and worship on Constantines''s Sun-day.
And celebrate the Xmas of Saternalia and the Easter of Ishtar? rather than obey the perpetual feasts of Lev 23! ( As Yeshua did)
You erroneously claim to be ''''not under the law''''- What then are you under? The false assumption that ''Jesus came to start a new religion called Christianity?"

Yeshua ( what his mother called him) never converted.
He was and is and forever will be a Jew... Salvation is of the ?????
 
SJ Baker   10/3/2007 7:38 PM
293 .  Einstein "father of atom bomb" Paul "father of christians"
Well well the unidentified "Bible scholar" publicly describes me on this page as being "ignorant" of "history and scripture" simply because my own in -depth study of both the facts of history and scripture leads me to challenge what he writes.

No surprise really! The arrogant "Bible scholar" repeats the typical responses of not only the pharisee Paul but also of every christian pope, clergyman and their "biblical scholars" to those who dare challenge their lies "would you teach us?" (John 9:34). Let me assure you "Bible scholar" I am not "ignorant of history and scripture". History records that Einstein was "the father of the (atom) bomb" which on behalf of christians destroyed millions of innocent lives in Japan - so disparagingly referred to by "Charles" in his comment - and Paul the founder of christianity describes himself in his writings as being "the father of christians" whose evil fruits are spattered all over the pages of the last two thousand years of christianity. Enough facts for me.
 
Hubert Sutton   10/3/2007 6:07 PM
294 .  Hubert Sutton & Patrick Geaney
Your allegations regarding Paul are historically and scripturally false. Paul was initially suspect for having ferverently persecuted Messianics as a Pharisee and Sanhedrin. He illustrated Christ in Tanakah - which is exactly what Messiah Christ did, as well as: Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Michah, King David, Moses, etc...

Please study scripture and history yourself so you don''t parrot - picking up any nonsense and spouting it as if fact. Charles'' post "Paul''s detractors" is right.

Also, Christianity is Jewish. Messianics are the purest and fullest practice of Christianity & Judaism.
 
Bible scholar   10/3/2007 2:47 PM
295 .  Hubert Sutton - I''m on solid ground.
You''re ignorance of history and scripture is remarkable. Why are you and Geaney posting on matters you''re ignorant of?

Hawkings and Newton don''t agree with you or your unnamed detractors. Detractors don''t invalidate facts, they merely criticize what they are ignorant of or works which heights they could never reach. Doubtless none are in such stellar league.
 
Bible scholar   10/3/2007 2:30 PM
296 .  Paul''s detractors
Funny that you mention the Theory Of Relativity . As for whether the theory is flawed or not ask the Japanese . As for Paul being rejected of the 12 Apostles if you took time to read you would have some ideal why they were skeptical of him . Let me ask you this . Did Paul and any other of the Apostles disagree about any of the Gospel ? Or is it that you are just an antichrist and this is your best effort to destroy Christianity . After all Christianity is the most directly attacked religion in the world . No other religion is irritating to Satan as the Gospel of Jesus , so this must be the real one . Muslims , buddhist, Dalli lama , Hindu not a problem but just say Jesus . He is a source of irritation where ever His name is said . There is your theory of relativity , non other but Jesus is related to God the Father .
 
Charles   10/2/2007 11:23 PM
297 .  Einstein''s theory of relativity and Paul''s gospel are flawed
Bible scholar is standing on very shaky ground indeed in his likening Paul''s Romans 11 with Einstein/s "theory" of relativity. Many reputable scientists now hold that Einstein''s theory of relativity is untenable in the light of recent scientific discoveries.

Patrick Geaney does well in reminding us that Paul never met nor quoted from the writings of the Jewish Messiah. Paul was also rejected by the twelve apostles and preached a completely different gospel to that preached by them. This latter fact alone could very well explain the mess that is christianity.

 
Hubert Sutton   10/2/2007 1:56 PM
298 .  Patrick Geaney - Please speak for yourself
Your posts are rife with scriptural confusion.

Apostle Paul was an expert in Torah-Tanakh and in full agreement with Christ. Paul''s exclaimation of praise in Romans 11 as an Einstein marveling at discovering relativity. Paul intimately understood Torah''s intricate requirements for atonement and so fully appreciated its revelation and fulfillment through Christ for Jews and Gentiles per the promises of Tanakh regarding salvation for both.
 
Bible scholar   10/2/2007 6:44 AM
299 .  Thomas: Christianity and Jewish Messianics
Present day Jewish Messianics as you point out have "no fear of Yehvah Elohiym" (Exodus 9:30) and unfortunately worship the "Jesus" and "christ" preached by the false apostle Paul who founded christianity in Antioch in Syria where his followers "were first called christians" (Acts 11:26) and from where he launched his false "gospel of the grace of god" (Acts 20:24)

Following the preaching of "the 12 apostles of the Lamb" (Revelation 22:14) it is recorded that "many of the Jews and a great many of the priests were obedient" (Acts 2:41. 6:7) to "this good news of the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 4:17. 24:14) as preached also by יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēshûa`) Mashiyach.

Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa'' Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom2.html

 
Patrick Geaney   10/1/2007 5:14 PM
300 .  Thanks Mike.
Keep up the great work!
 
Faith   10/1/2007 3:32 PM
301 .  Thomas:The hell is the place for all non-believers of Yeshua
Stop, you are the same line as islam.,
 
Shimon   10/1/2007 11:16 AM
302 .  some are still in the wilderness, i see
ask our Jewish friends to do a word-study on the names given to God in the Torah and then ask them why it is in a gramatically plural form...their heads will spin when they realize the nature of the divine Trinity is actually revealed in their scriptures as well....yes Jesus was, Jesus is, and Jesus will always be <><
 
kevin   10/1/2007 3:11 AM
303 .  Christianity has been thrown a lifeline by Jewish Messianics
Messianic Jews are not only renegade Jews who have joined hands with christian anti-torah and traditional Jewish enemies but have added insult to injury by their adopting the christian idols such as trinity and jesus and sought to dress them up in Jewish clothing by calling their Jesus Yeshua. The christian trinity makes a mockery of the "Shema" and their jesus and christ is acknowledged by every Jew by the derogatory name yeshu not Yeshua.

 
Thomas   9/30/2007 7:51 PM
304 .  Answer to Faith
Dear Faith,

For some reason the direct link is not working. You can enter the JIJ website by simply writing the address in the relevant location.

Please feel free to send your concerns and I will be happy to answer all your questions directly.

Blessings,

Mike
 
Mike Decker   9/30/2007 9:51 AM
305 .  RE: Jesus Christ is Lord
Amen Jean, that says it all. And to you Oracle, your comment relates to just how lost and pitiful you really are. And how much you need Jesus, as your Lord and Savior. And I pray, that one day, you will come to know Jesus as the Messiah.
 
Joyce   9/30/2007 8:50 AM
306 .  Jesus Christ is Lord

 
Jean   9/30/2007 4:28 AM
307 .  Jesus not the messiah
The concept of a Messiah is a jewish one. Accroding to Isiah Ch2 and Ch11 the Messiah will be of flesh and blood and not half man half god. He will be a descendent from the house of David. Joseph did not impregnate Mary an therefore jesus is not from the House of david. The peace is supposed to bring peace. Jesus did not. Many thousands of people have been muredered persecuted in his name. The crusades, the Spanish inquisition and the pogroms of europe just mention a few. The messiah will bring the ingathering of the exiles to israel. jesus did nothing like this. He was a flop.

In jewish law if you believe in Yoshca you are committing Idolatry. "Ye shall have not other Gods before Me" is the second of ten commandments.

The gospel of John says in contradiction putting words in jesus'' mouth "No one cometh unto the father but through me!!"
jesus is not the Mesiah nor is he a devinity"
 
Oracle   9/29/2007 5:06 PM
308 .  SUKKOT SHALOM
SUKKOT SHALOM "Children of Yisrael" (Deut 1:3. Revelation 21:12) and disciples of Yeshuwa` Mashiyach wherever you may be.

Let us remember the Shoah.
"May their voice never be silenced"

"Barukh Yehvah Elohiym Elohay Yisrael Who alone does wondrous things"
(Psalm 72:18)

Disciples of Yeshuwa'''' Mashiyach "bless the children of Yisrael"
"YEHVAH bless thee and keep thee"
"YEHVAH make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee"
"YEHVAH lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace"
(Numbers 6:23-26)

Patrick Geaney
Unworthy servant and disciple of "Adoniy Yeshuwa'''' Mashiyach" (Psalm 110:1)
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/disciples/custom5.html

 
Patrick Geaney   9/29/2007 2:03 PM
309 .  Very Good...
It''s very good article. Yes, We are moving forward and onward in the eternal plan of Adonai for the fulfillment in this season of life. May Adonai open the eyes of people who has not know Yeshua The True Messiah. Here in Our congregation - Beit HaMishkan, We stand for you O Israel !! Hag Sameach !!

 
bernard hutabarat   9/28/2007 5:30 AM
310 .  Rav. Yoshi Yahu Ben Shofar: It is logical
"What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs. If we let him go on like this,

everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."

Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all! You do not realize that

it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."

He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not

only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one. ..." John 11:48-53
 
Faith   9/27/2007 10:52 PM
311 .  Rav. Yoshi Yahu Ben Shofar: It is logical
These are the literal and spiritual decendents of the Pharisees Yeshua rebuked.

We forgive and pray the blessings of Christ upon all, he rose for all. It is scripturally logical because scripture says.. (cont.)
 
Faith   9/27/2007 10:51 PM
312 .  Another informative article.
Perhaps you would refer Messianics to Mr. Seklow for consult or consult with him yourselves regarding the issues contained in your article.

The legal situation of the Messianics seems impossibly insurmountable. However, legal history shows us that just ain''t so. More importantly, scripture shows us HaShem is able.

G-d bless you. Thanks so much.
 
Faith   9/27/2007 10:22 PM
313 .  Another informative article.
It is high time Christians and Messianics began sending their funds and prayers where scriptural priority calls us, to Messianics first for brotherly love, and all others second, for Christian love.

If you haven''t already, please read Jay Seklow, Esq. testimony regarding his faith in Christ and his unanimous win before the US Supreme Court in Board of Airport Commissioners et al. v. Jews for Jesus. http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/lifestories/jay_sekulow - it''s fantastic!
 
Faith   9/27/2007 10:17 PM
314 .  Another informative article.
I love Israel, I love Jews, because I am Christian. Hundreds of millions in support is sent to Israel by Christians to the very religious groups who persecute our brethren in Christ. This article highlights what is already generally known by Christians regarding the discriminations against Messianics sans the legal specifics. So thank you very much for educating us all. (cont.)
 
Faith   9/27/2007 10:09 PM
315 .  Another informative article
Pardon me, I say this with great respect for your work. It is a vital work. But, to state, "It is..likely ..the Messianic Jewish community simply does not know its legal rights as citizens of Israel." Is a cop out in the face of the horrendous religious and judicial corruption towards Messianics in Israel.
 
Faith   9/27/2007 9:22 PM
316 .  Another informative article.
Ultimately, this is tantamount to group "targeting" for religious discrimination and persecution. Plain and simple. Your notions that "..the main problems..is..Messianic Jews..have not been active enough in..Israeli society. (and) .. they do not realize..(they) could have a strong influence.." Is answered in your next analysis, "...they.. may be greatly intimidated by the real threat of ostracism and persecution by those..proven..vehemently against their beliefs."
 
Faith   9/27/2007 9:18 PM
317 .  Another informative article.
In terms of religious discrimination and persecution against Messianics, it''s abundantly clear that religious and political croynism with predjudice is the root. To say the religious groups are "..preventing Jews from believing in ways different from theirs." is inaccurate. The religious discrimination is *specific* to Messianics alone. Moreover, it rises to horrific persecution when one considers Jews are not persecuted or risk losing their citizenship for being atheists, buddists, new agers etc. (cont.)

 
Faith   9/27/2007 9:07 PM
318 .  Mike, the www.jij.org.il linki doesn''t working.
Oh well.. I''ll post comment here :)
 
Faith   9/27/2007 9:00 PM
319 .  theology
Dr. Michael L. Brown examines Jewish theological objections to Yeshua in Volume 2 of his "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" series. For people who don''t understand Christian theology and want to know why Christians profess Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel and the Nations. it''s helpful to see the viewpoints on both sides of the spectrum to see where eachother is coming from. I challenge anyone educated or uneducated to humbly pick up this scholarly analysis of the different arguments and really prayerfully consider what the Bible says. Search out the scriptures, and seek wisdom and understanding and stop making arrogant statements that only cause offense. Hear the Word of the Lord, allow the Shekkinah to minister to you.
 
Noreen-Boston, MA   9/26/2007 6:38 PM
320 .  revelation among the Torah observant leadership
My inlaws are in the orthodox community in Israel and their Rabbis have said that what we believe is not idolatry. They scrutinized our congregation''s statement of faith and found it to not be contrary to Judaism.
 
Noreen-Boston, MA   9/26/2007 6:23 PM
321 .  Jewish decent
If I''m Jewish enough for Hitler than I better be Jewish enough for Israel. If I have enough Jewish blood in me to be someone who would''ve been a victim of the holocaust then why on earth can I not find open arms in Israel?!
 
Noreen-Boston, MA   9/26/2007 6:19 PM
322 .  Jewish are Jewish
just a quastion why let alot of shit russian immigrating to Israel???they are not Jewish and also not missianic they are just criminals and alot anti semita just come over to get money!!of the Allyah!!!!Hebreu are Hebreu and lieve and die for Israel
 
Helios   9/26/2007 3:51 PM
323 .  to no name re messiah
The sun doesn''t rise in the east!
The sun doesn''t rise in the east!
The sun doesn''t rise in the east!
The sun doesn''t rise in the east!
The sun doesn''t rise in the east!
The sun doesn''t rise in the east!

Do you think by repeating this statement enough times it might work?

Why don''t you stop and try again. Ask the Ruach to help you as you read Gods Word.

I pray that you will see the Light of Yeshua Hamashiach.


 
Sarah   9/26/2007 6:35 AM
324 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:58 AM
325 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:58 AM
326 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:56 AM
327 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:55 AM
328 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:51 AM
329 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:50 AM
330 .  re messiah
Your messiah is a man-god like Bacchus and Tammuz and other demi-gods born of a woman and a god.
You also worship more than one god
you have 3 of them which you try to cover over in saying they are three in one.
3 in 1 is an oil not a god.
Your god died.
God cannot die he is immortal.
You cannot make 3 gods out of one and say this is not polytheism its a joke.
 
To Michiel   9/26/2007 5:50 AM
331 .  So whats the point
Jonah is read on Yom Kipppur. - no coincidence!
Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and nights, speaking of the death that would be resurected,/ turned around.

But he was in the belly of the fish because he was sleeping on a boat going to a place in the opposite direction of the thing God required him to do.

And when he did what God required him to do,